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 #32 (permalink) Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:47 pm How to be a professional moderator |
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| Englishuser wrote: |
| When it comes to my own posts, I will do my best to be as helpful as possible to our users. For instance, if someone asks a grammar or vocabulary related question, I wouldn't answer it unless I was quite sure about the answer and would have an authoritative source (such as the OED) to support my view. |
Okay, but the whole last dispute came about because you had misinterpreted and overextended something you'd seen in the OED, and you wouldn't admit you were mistaken. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5334
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #33 (permalink) Tue Jul 11, 2006 14:20 pm What dictionaries you use? |
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Hey Guys,
there is a big fight, and I didn't notice!
It's over, but let me put my two cents in it! 
(I wish Amy saw me using this phrase)
I totally agree with Torsten about native speakers.
They might make a spelling mistake, but they do know the spoken language, that's their own language for God's sake!
But guys, you're BOTH moderators, and neither of you should act like kids in the school. Although I like it, and it's much more fun than it would've been otherwise, but one of you got hard time for it, and it doesn't seem fair.
Fight needs at leat two, and Jamie could've said:
"Let's see what others think about this nonsense",
instead of repeating: "I'm the smart, you're stupid, and I can prove it by thousand ways"
It wasn't the first time Jamie acting this way, and he gets away with it. Hi Jamie, I hope you still like me.
By the way, Jamie, you seems to know that Englishuser is a she. Or it's a fact I just wasn't aware of?
Or you just made your own decision?
Englishuser, do you like to be man to one, and woman to the other? No offense
Spencer |
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Spencer
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 326
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| #34 (permalink) Tue Jul 11, 2006 15:14 pm How to be a professional moderator |
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Jamie,
You wrote:
| Quote: |
| Okay, but the whole last dispute came about because you had misinterpreted and overextended something you'd seen in the OED, and you wouldn't admit you were mistaken. |
Yes, but I'd claim that this happens relatively rarely. Normally I understand the language of the OED, so to speak. In the future, I'll think twice before putting up a big argument. We're not children at nursery school, after all. |
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Englishuser
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 806
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| #35 (permalink) Tue Jul 11, 2006 15:28 pm What dictionaries you use? |
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Hi spencer,
Please find some comments of mine below.
| Quote: |
spencer wrote: I totally agree with Torsten about native speakers.
They might make a spelling mistake, but they do know the spoken language, that's their own language for God's sake! |
You should know that Jamie, Amy, Alan and other moderators here on the site that are native speakers know English better than the average native speaker as they're experts at the English language. If you'd have native speakers of English that have no experience whatsoever in ESL-teaching as moderators over here you'd find that the posts written by them would be different from the ones you're used to.
| Quote: |
spencer wrote: Fight needs at leat two, and Jamie could've said:
"Let's see what others think about this nonsense",
instead of repeating: "I'm the smart, you're stupid, and I can prove it by thousand ways" |
I think that Jamie was courteous in his posts. And I don't think our discussion was a real fight, either. You surely know that the definition in the OED was a bit ambiguous to say at least, so I'm not ashamed at all for my misinterpretation.
| Quote: |
By the way, Jamie, you seems to know that Englishuser is a she. Or it's a fact I just wasn't aware of?
Or you just made your own decision?
Englishuser, do you like to be man to one, and woman to the other? No offense
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My gender (or other personal information) oughtn't be discussed in the forums. If you want to discuss language and gender on a general level it's fine, but discussing me in particular should be avoided. |
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Englishuser
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 806
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| #36 (permalink) Tue Jul 11, 2006 16:12 pm What dictionaries you use? |
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| Englishuser wrote: |
| ...but to discuss me in particular should be avoided. |
Sorry for my, maybe stupid and misplaced question, but should it be:
discussing me ... should be avoided
?
or both are fine?
Thanks in advance,
Tamara
_________________
It’s impossible to learn swimming without entering the water… |
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Tamara
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 1577
Location: UK
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| #37 (permalink) Tue Jul 11, 2006 16:50 pm What dictionaries you use? |
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Since i can see it's really important to you,so you must have a prity serious reason not to tell us these things, I promise I'll drop the subject from now on.
Peace out
Spencer |
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Spencer
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 326
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| #38 (permalink) Tue Jul 11, 2006 16:55 pm What dictionaries you use? |
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Hi Tamara,
You wrote:
| Quote: |
Englishuser wrote:
...but to discuss me in particular should be avoided.
Sorry for my, maybe stupid and misplaced question, but should it be:
discussing me ... should be avoided
?
or both are fine? |
You're absolutely right. You should use the ing-form. |
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Englishuser
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 806
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| #39 (permalink) Tue Jul 11, 2006 17:02 pm What dictionaries you use? |
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| Tamara wrote: |
discussing me ... should be avoided
?
Tamara |
Hi Tamara,
Your opinion is fine! |
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 Pamela
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1239
Location: Rf
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| #40 (permalink) Tue Jul 11, 2006 17:15 pm What dictionaries you use? |
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| Englishuser wrote: |
| I'd like to reword the clause as follows: ,but we should avoid to discuss me in particular. Or we could stick to your suggestion. |
Pamela is right. Stick to Tamara's opinion. The verb avoid should not be followed by a "to infinitive" but rather by the "-ing form" of a verb.
Amy |
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Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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| #41 (permalink) Tue Jul 11, 2006 17:55 pm What dictionaries you use? |
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| Englishuser wrote: |
| You should know that Jamie, Amy, Alan and other moderators here on the site that [who ]are native speakers know English better than the average native speaker as they're experts at the English language. If you'd have native speakers of English that [who]have no experience whatsoever in ESL-teaching as moderators over here you'd find that the posts written by them would be different from the ones you're used to. |
Englishuser, or should I say Mr.T..? You?re an idiot, really really an idot and I can?t understand that Torsten didn?t ban you earlier. I hope he does so now!!! 
| Englishuser wrote: |
| Spencer wrote: |
| instead of repeating: "I'm the smart, you're stupid, and I can prove it by thousand ways" |
I think that Jamie was courteous in his posts. And I don't think our discussion was a real fight, either. You surely know that the definition in the OED was a bit ambiguous to say at least, so I'm not ashamed at all for my misinterpretation. |
I think you should be ashamed for your pushy way of using this site. From what will you know what users of this site do use? 
| Spencer wrote: |
By the way, Jamie, you seems to know that Englishuser is a she. Or it's a fact I just wasn't aware of?
Or you just made your own decision?
Englishuser, do you like to be man to one, and woman to the other? No offense
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Spencer, I think as Englishuser is neither male nor female it is thing and so it is IT
| Englishuser wrote: |
| My gender (or other personal information) oughtn't be discussed in the forums. If you want to discuss language and gender on a general level it's fine, but to discuss me in particular should be avoided. |
You?re right, your sex isn?t interesting for the site, but your skills (social capabilities) were. And I think you didn?t show some. Didn?t you read Torsten?s requests to you or didn?t you understand them? Might be that I?m able to explain it to you!!
Michael |
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Fan Of Arabian Horses
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 1007
Location: next to Dortmund , Europe
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| #42 (permalink) Tue Jul 11, 2006 19:04 pm What dictionaries you use? |
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Hi Fan of Arabian horses,
You may choose between 'that' or 'who'.
| Quote: |
| Fan of Arabian horses wrote: I think you should be ashamed for your pushy way of using this site. From what will you know what users of this site do use? |
I don't understand this at all. I think you should explain yourself better.
| Quote: |
| Fan of Arabian horses wrote: Spencer, I think as Englishuser is neither male nor female it is thing and so it is IT |
This lacks relevance.
| Quote: |
| Fan of Arabian horses wrote: You?re right, your sex isn?t interesting for the site, but your skills (social capabilities) were. And I think you didn?t show some. Didn?t you read Torsten?s requests to you or didn?t you understand them? Might be that I?m able to explain it to you!! |
I don't understand you at all. I hope that you'll tell me what exactly you mean. |
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Englishuser
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 806
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| #43 (permalink) Tue Jul 11, 2006 23:06 pm What dictionaries you use? |
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| Englishuser wrote: |
You may choose between 'that' or 'who'.
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Maybe that you can choose but if you are speaking about respectable authorities of this site I think it?s more a task of social capabilities as a grammatically one to choose the word who.
| Englishuser wrote: |
| I don't understand this at all. I think you should explain yourself better. |
As you are a trainee ( I wish you all the best to become a ful blooded moderator ) you should better pay more attention on what the administrators and the other moderators advise you than always to try to defend yourself with pushy arguments. Learning is a hard business sometimes and if you really listen to the proficient moderators ( and here are some) you can achieve becoming a good moderator. But you must listen and think through what they?ve told you before you answer.
| Englishuser wrote: |
| Fan of Arabian horses wrote: |
| wrote: Spencer, I think as Englishuser is neither male nor female it is thing and so it is IT |
This lacks relevance. |
Right, look at the quote below.
| Englishuser wrote: |
| Fan of Arabian horses wrote: |
| You?re right, your sex isn?t interesting for the site, but your skills (social capabilities) were. And I think you didn?t show some. Didn?t you read Torsten?s requests to you or didn?t you understand them? Might be that I?m able to explain it to you!! |
I don't understand you at all. I hope that you'll tell me what exactly you mean. |
Have a look back to Torsten?s recent posts to you at the forum "Feedback and Commands". You?ll find there some requests from Torsten to you. I couldn?t discover that you listened to that, but what I found was a thoughtless reply from you.
I?m neither the policeman of this site nor am I the judge or anything else. But I?m a member of it who?d like to have a pleasant atmosphere between adult people. That doesn?t mean that you can?t discuss, you only should follow the rules and you didn?t.
Michael
P.S.: It were more polite if you quote like that: [quote="username"].
And a second recommend: Have a cape of sleep about what I told you here before you reply. |
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Fan Of Arabian Horses
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 1007
Location: next to Dortmund , Europe
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| #44 (permalink) Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:07 am Mistakes |
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| Englishuser wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Jamie wrote: And you have shown that you're not open to knowing about the subtleties that you DO need work on. |
I've been very happy to see your corrections. I appreciate them very much as I've told you. I just think it's difficult for people to help me improve my English because of the random nature of my mistakes. For instance, if I write 'provoking' instead of 'provocative', it's nice to learn the right way of saying it, of course, but I don't think I can make use of the correction when building other words as I normally manage to do it correctly in the first place. |
One predicament of building language proficiency is that he higher one gets, the less one's mistakes have to do with systematic issues, and the more they involve problems of nuance, wrongly overextending dictionary definitions, lack of exposure to various terms, etc.
| Englishuser wrote: |
| It depends on the mistake. Like I said, I'm often pleased about your corrections. But I'm also aware of the fact that no one knows English like God, and therefore corrections made by you can be wrong, too. For example, 'full evening dress' is a certain kind of suit worn by a man even though you had a different impression. |
I'm sorry. I was right and you were wrong. You were wrong on several levels.
1. "Evening dress", if used to mean white tie, is uncountable. You can't use an article before it.
2. "Evening dress", if used to mean an evening gown, is countable, so you can use an article with it, and usually have to.
3. As I have pointed out, you said "a full evening dress" -- with an article -- so you were asking if I ever wear an evening gown, not if I ever wear white tie.
4. You relied completely on dictionaries, and discounted empirical evidence. Showing you websites full of evening dresses did not convince you that the term could mean an evening gown, even though it was in front of your face. Instead you claimed I was only hallucinating your mistake due to the culture of my home country.
5. Ignoring empirical evidence, you refused to believe that the existence of the two meanings of the term (the countable one and the uncountable one) could cause confusion or humor.
6. You misinterpreted the term "evening dress" and thought it indicated a type of suit, rather than a general style of apparel, which is what it really means.
Language flows like a river, and the job of lexicographers is something like trying to spear water. This is why empirical observation of the world, and not the limited information in dictionaries, is what we must rely on.
| Englishuser wrote: |
| I must admit that it irks me that you say that people make mistakes simply because of their non-native speaker status. Native speakers make mistakes, too, and I don't think that you need to refer to the fact that it's a foreigner mistake you're correcting: simply correct it and everybody will be happy. |
I think you're the only one in the forums who is sensitive to anyone pointing out the distinction between a foreigner mistake and a native-speaker mistake. When I have been able to point to the first-language source of other people's English errors, they have generally found it helpful. You're the only one who goes into a fit about it.
| Englishuser wrote: |
| In my opinion you should strive to correct more or less all mistakes people make, not only grave errors. |
How many hours do you think I have in a day? |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5334
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #45 (permalink) Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:25 am What dictionaries you use? |
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| spencer wrote: |
A fight needs at leat two, and Jamie could've said:
"Let's see what others think about this nonsense",
instead of repeating: "I'm the smart, you're stupid, and I can prove it by thousand ways"
It wasn't the first time Jamie acting this way, and he gets away with it. Hi Jamie, I hope you still like me. |
Of course I still like you, Spencer. You betcha. I know I act like this at various times. The best way to keep me from attacking is to keep blood out of the water.
| spencer wrote: |
By the way, Jamie, you seems to know that Englishuser is a she. Or it's a fact I just wasn't aware of?
Or you just made your own decision? |
I don't know if I have ever found any evidence, or I just assumed that Englishuser was a woman because its thinking and behavior are similar to hyper-sensitive women I've taught with, and because I've never encountered that behavior in men. (There's always a first time, though.)
Besides that, only women write things like this:
| Englishuser wrote: |
| My gender (or other personal information) oughtn't be discussed in the forums. If you want to discuss language and gender on a general level it's fine, but discussing me in particular should be avoided. |
Sometimes I run into professors who teach online classes and make their students uncomfortable by never revealing any gender information about themselves. Only radicalized feminist women do this, because only radical feminist women believe that knowing their gender will make people question their competence. Women who are not radical feminists, and men, don't have this kind of complex.
As I say, it's generally women who have a background in women's studies who behave this way. (In my opinion women's studies sickens the minds of women in much the same way that pornography addiction damages men psychologically.)
Anyway, Englishuser could be a he, a she, or even a robot, but I think it's a woman. That's only my assumption based on its behavior and my experience with other people. But as I say, you can never know for sure.
Hey, Spencer! By the way, if we were writing in Hungarian, we'd have no problem choosing a pronoun for Englishuser, would we?  |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5334
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Gendered speech | Comparision of download options |
