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Word usage (for vs. because)



 
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Word usage (for vs. because) #1 (permalink) Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:35 am   Word usage (for vs. because)
 

Could you let me know about what difference of usage between ”because” and ”for” which have the same meaning of reason.
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For vs. because #2 (permalink) Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:35 pm   For vs. because
 

.
To quote Michael Swan:

Because puts more emphasis on the reason, and most often introduces new information. When the reason is the most important part of the sentence, the because-clause usually comes at the end. It can also stand alone.

For introduces new information, but suggests that the reason is given as an afterthought. For-clauses never come at the beginning of sentences, and cannot stand alone. For used in this sense is a formal written style
.

That about sums it up.
.
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Word usage (for vs. because) #3 (permalink) Sun Jul 09, 2006 13:06 pm   Word usage (for vs. because)
 

Just to add to what Mister Micawber said, I'd recommend not using for or as in this way when speaking. They're very unusual in speech.
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Word usage (for vs. because) #4 (permalink) Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:54 am   Word usage (for vs. because)
 

For clauses certainly do come at the beginning of sentences. This is because for is a coordinating conjunction, so the clause is independent (and can stand alone). Apparently, Michael Swan wrongly thinks the conjunction is subordinate as he confuses its causal meaning with subordinates because and as.

In fact, for clauses are often seen at the beginning of a sentence in the real world, just as appropriately and correctly as you see and and but at the beginning of a sentence -- provided it isn't a fragment.
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Word usage (for vs. because) #5 (permalink) Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:16 pm   Word usage (for vs. because)
 

Hello, Jotham-- and welcome to English-test.

Could you supply an example of a fronted 'for' clause from some authentic source? I cannot think of one.

Thanks.
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Word usage (for vs. because) #6 (permalink) Wed Sep 08, 2010 15:47 pm   Word usage (for vs. because)
 

I'd love to. If you don't have Bryan Garner's Modern American Usage, I think that is a superb source for getting balanced advice from a prescriptive point of view. Garner understands the world of linguists and keeps up with their views, and researches examples in the real world of writers and journalists to back him up.

Garner's examples of "for" at the beginning of independent clauses are thus:
Quote:
"Our job is to study our fellow animals caught in the cages and learn from them. For they are us." Letter of Frank Lambert Jr., "Economic Equality Is a Sham in USA," Fla. Today, 1- Jan. 1998, at A10.

"Perhaps I should feel grateful for the hard work Ms. Smith has put in on my behalf. For she certainly has worked very hard indeed." Brandon Robson, "Shelf Life," Independent, 11 Jan., 1998, at 27.

Earlier, Parish had said he was proud and flattered to have his number retire. For he always lived in Bird's long shadow." Bill Reynolds, ""Green with Pride," Providence J.-Bull., 19 Jan. 1998, at A1.

He also quotes this grammatical view:

"Because...for can stand at the beginning of an indepenedent statement or even of a paragraph, it can be classed as a coordinating conjunction." R.W. Pence & D.W. Emery, A Grammar of Present-Day English 124 n.31 (2d ed. 1963)
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Word usage (for vs. because) #7 (permalink) Wed Sep 08, 2010 15:56 pm   Word usage (for vs. because)
 

You (and Garner) are confusing utterances and 'sentences', Jotham. All of the 'for' clauses that you have presented follow upon the previous independent clauses semantically; they carry no meaning otherwise, so they are not independent. Notice that they always 'come at the beginning of sentences' because there is no following clause at all. Whether there is merely a period or not does not define a meaningful sentence. Your examples are, in prescriptive parlance, merely fragments.
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Word usage (for vs. because) #8 (permalink) Wed Sep 08, 2010 16:34 pm   Word usage (for vs. because)
 

Quote:
You (and Garner) are confusing utterances and 'sentences', Jotham. All of the 'for' clauses that you have presented follow upon the previous independent clauses semantically; they carry no meaning otherwise, so they are not independent.

Now you're playing with rhetoric on me. I never said they stand out independently, per se. Neither do "and" or "but" clauses. We're talking about conjunctions here! Come on. I said they are independent clauses, which means they have equal importance with the clause they are joined with. They aren't less important or subordinate to the other, which is why we can appropriately split them into sentences without being a fragment.
Quote:
Notice that they always 'come at the beginning of sentences' because there is no following clause at all. Whether there is merely a period or not does not define a meaningful sentence. Your examples are, in prescriptive parlance, merely fragments.

Then you'd have to say the same for "and" or "but" clauses. I don't know -- do you also believe they can't start a sentence as well?

At any rate, you can say, "Our job is to study our fellow animals caught in the cages and learn from them. For they are us." But you can't say "For they are us, our job is to study our fellow animals caught in the cages and learn from them." That's because we're dealing with a coordinating conjunction. If it were subordinating, you could make the switch.

"Our job is to study our fellow animals caught in the cages and learn from them, because they are us." "Because they are us, our job is to study our fellow animals caught in the cages and learn from them."

These sentences sound weird because I'm trying to join two perfectly independent clauses with a subordinator. But they work well enough that you can get my point about the nature of subordinators.
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Word usage (for vs. because) #9 (permalink) Wed Sep 08, 2010 23:43 pm   Word usage (for vs. because)
 

Yes, I am just playing with you. Linguists take different views of what a complete, independent utterance is, and if you think 'Yoicks!' is one, then I'm not really interested in arguing about whether final punctuation makes the sentence or not. However, you chose to argue originally outside the point being made: that 'for' (like 'and' and 'but', incidentally) cannot start a sentence– a complex or compound sentence.

You can write:

I threw up, because I was sick / Because I was sick, I threw up.

But you cannot write:

(X) For I was sick, I threw up instead of I threw up, for I was sick.

Just as you cannot write:

And I threw up I was sick instead of I was sick and I threw up.

If you have something to say against that, then do so, but otherwise, you have simply hijacked the thread.
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because #10 (permalink) Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:32 am   because
 

As because says something else , emphasize to an important reason for example. because you didn't come.

for is not one with because as i guess, please share an example with us

Regards
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Word usage (for vs. because) #11 (permalink) Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:38 am   Word usage (for vs. because)
 

There are some examples above, Nehalmayur. What other examples would you like? (Please be specific.)
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Word usage (for vs. because) #12 (permalink) Thu Sep 09, 2010 14:35 pm   Word usage (for vs. because)
 

Quote:
Yes, I am just playing with you. Linguists take different views of what a complete, independent utterance is, and if you think 'Yoicks!' is one, then I'm not really interested in arguing about whether final punctuation makes the sentence or not. However, you chose to argue originally outside the point being made: that 'for' (like 'and' and 'but', incidentally) cannot start a sentence– a complex or compound sentence.

You mean to say I am misinterpreting Michael Swan? So when he says, For-clauses never come at the beginning of sentences, what he really means is that the for clause isn't the first clause of the two complementary clauses?

And when he says and cannot stand alone, what he really means is it shouldn't appear without a complementary clause at all?

And so being unconcerned with sentence periods or where sentences break, does that imply he thinks it quite all right after all to start a sentence with "for" provided the preceding sentence contains it's antecedent clause?

Well, it sure is a funny way of writing about it. But just one thing: why would he say because clause stands alone? Is he suggesting one could say "because he is sick" without any precedent at all, unlike "for"?

Quote:
If you have something to say against that, then do so, but otherwise, you have simply hijacked the thread.

The original poster asked about the usage of "for." Whether or not '"for" can appropriately start a sentence certainly constitutes usage of "for."
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Word usage (for vs. because) #13 (permalink) Thu Sep 09, 2010 14:43 pm   Word usage (for vs. because)
 

Yes to your first and the second was my own comment (not Swan's), and he says nothing there about your third enquiry. The section is only discussing the first question (about the 1st of 2 clauses).
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repeat #14 (permalink) Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:23 am   repeat
 

i guess that was straightforward Mister's

Well i would say again i was saying about related query :P

Regards

Royals
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