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 #2 (permalink) Mon Jul 10, 2006 14:29 pm Next Monday |
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| This is very clear in the minds of native English speakers |
Really? I think your mother was indeed a typical native English speaker-- this problem of "when is 'next' Tuesday? and when was 'last' Tuesday?" occurs over and over, and not just among ESLs/EFLs but also between ENLs, and among those great Unwashed who are not associated with language education in any way. Confirmation dialogue seems to occur as often as not: 'You mean the day after tomorrow?'; 'Do you mean the 14th or the 21st?'
I have seen long, sometimes acerbic, discussions between teachers that cannot agree on where 'the line' in the week exists that next and last are absolutely unequivocal.
Nobody said the language is perfect. There are lots of gaps-- homophones, contractions, etc, that require the interlocutors to check each other's utterances to ensure that they are on the right wavelength.
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 Mister Micawber
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| #3 (permalink) Mon Jul 10, 2006 14:53 pm Next Monday |
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| Now that you say so, Mister Micawber, I see you're right. The line is kind of fuzzy. I guess the problem was that my mother used to use "next" with days that were clearly on the wrong side of the line, not just disputably on the wrong side of the line. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #4 (permalink) Mon Jul 10, 2006 15:04 pm Next Monday |
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Hello all,
that's a very interesting observation Jamie.
Slightly off-topic but along the same lines, using "this",
we can also say
"What did you do this weekend?" referring to the one just gone and
"What are you going to do this weekend" for the next one. |
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Jennipa
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| #5 (permalink) Mon Jul 10, 2006 15:54 pm Next Monday |
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Hi jennipa
First of all, welcome!
| Quote: |
"What did you do this weekend?" referring to the one just gone and
"What are you going to do this weekend" for the next one. |
Those two sentences are a bit odd, aren't they? :lol: But at least they're a little easier to sort out than Jamie's "next" sentences. I agree with MM. People seem to have differing interpretations as to where the "line" for next and last might be. Clarification is very often necessary.
So, what about the word until? If someone says they'll "be out of the office until the 14th", will the person be in the office on the 14th or not? I've heard lots of heated discussion about that one, too. :lol:
Amy
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Yankee
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| #6 (permalink) Fri Jul 14, 2006 18:42 pm Next Monday |
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| Yankee wrote: |
| So, what about the word until? If someone says they'll "be out of the office until the 14th", will the person be in the office on the 14th or not? I've heard lots of heated discussion about that one, too. :lol: |
The confusion can also arise in other languages, as with terms like 'next Monday' (questions like Jamie's "Do you mean this coming Monday or the following Monday?" are almost threadbare from so much use!).
Regarding 'until + date', to be on the safe side, I usually add 'inclusive' -- such a handy little word! |
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Conchita
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| #7 (permalink) Sat Jul 15, 2006 0:31 am Next Monday |
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| Conchita wrote: |
| Regarding 'until + date', to be on the safe side, I usually add 'inclusive' -- such a handy little word! |
Most people use friendlier language for that. They say, "I'm out of the office and will be back on [date]." |
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Jamie (K)
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| #8 (permalink) Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:05 am Next Monday |
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| Quote: |
| "I'm out of the office and will be back on [date]." |
So, is that, like, they'll be back at 9 am, the start of that day, and you can call them first thing in the morning? Or, they'll be back sometime-- at least by the end of the day-- with just time to skim through their accumulated emails?
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Mister Micawber
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| #9 (permalink) Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:06 am Next Monday |
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| Mister Micawber wrote: |
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| Quote: |
| "I'm out of the office and will be back on [date]." |
So, is that, like, they'll be back at 9 am, the start of that day, and you can call them first thing in the morning? Or, they'll be back sometime-- at least by the end of the day-- with just time to skim through their accumulated emails?
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It means they'll be there at the start of the business day -- if the message is on their business phone. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #10 (permalink) Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:13 am Next Monday |
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Thanks for clarifying that, Jamie.
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| #11 (permalink) Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:14 am Next Monday |
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I often recommend that my students use the "back on [date]" format, but Mr. Mic does make a good point there. :lol:
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In Germany, where it's not terribly unusual for someone to be on vacation for 4 weeks at a time (and sometimes longer), American based companies sometimes recommend that their vacationing German employees avoid giving a return date altogether so that their American counterparts don't become miffed. :lol:
Amy
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Yankee
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| #12 (permalink) Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:49 am Next Monday |
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| Mister Micawber wrote: |
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So, is that, like, they'll be back at 9 am, the start of that day, and you can call them first thing in the morning? Or, they'll be back sometime-- at least by the end of the day-- with just time to skim through their accumulated emails?
. |
:lol:
| Jamie wrote: |
| Most people use friendlier language for that. |
Jamie, you have a way of camouflaging statements that makes them even blunter :lol: !
Do you mean to say that in America you hardly ever say or write: from + date until + date inclusive?
Example: The school will be closed from (date) to (date) inclusive.
| Amy wrote: |
| become miffed. |
I like that expression! Aren't you getting all British on us :) ! |
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Conchita
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| #13 (permalink) Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:11 am Miffed |
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Hi Conchita,
You said:
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I like that expression! Aren't you getting all British on us !
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about miffed. I like it,too. It's so much nicer than other expressions used nowadays indicating that you you are out of sorts/out of humour/fed up. It's very P G Wodehouse (whose literary skills I can't extol enough). And talking of the maestro it has suggestions of being disgruntled and PGW created another word out of that indicating you are decidedly not miffed and that was gruntled. It's a wonderful thing to sense that gruntled feeling.
Alan
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| #14 (permalink) Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:56 am Next Monday |
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| Conchita wrote: |
| Jamie wrote: |
| Most people use friendlier language for that. |
Jamie, you have a way of camouflaging statements that makes them even blunter :lol: !
Do you mean to say that in America you hardly ever say or write: from + date until + date inclusive?
Example: The school will be closed from (date) to (date) inclusive. |
Of course you can say and write it, but it sounds very official and gives a very impersonal tone to the statement. It can make one sound a little bit like an angry math teacher. That's the feeling I get from it, anyway.
Of course, if you write it in an official statement, that's perfectly okay, but it just doesn't sound friendly when you say it. It's similar to this: If you went to the YMCA and saw a sign that said, "All members must swipe their membership cards before entering the facility," that would strike you as normal. But if you walked in and forgot to swipe your card, would you like it if the clerk at the desk called behind you, "All members must swipe their membership cards before entering the facility"? No. It sounds unfriendly. He should say, "Uh, ma'am? I think you forgot to swipe your card."
| Conchita wrote: |
| Amy wrote: |
| become miffed. |
I like that expression! Aren't you getting all British on us :) ! |
What's British about it? North Americans use that expression all the time. It predates most of the English settlement of the continent, so it probably came here with the settlers. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #15 (permalink) Sat Jul 15, 2006 14:07 pm Next Monday |
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:lol:
| Quote: |
| I like that expression! Aren't you getting all British on us! |
Hi Conchita
Jamie's right, "miffed" isn't a word that is unknown or not used in the US. But, seeing as I come from the US East Coast, if people say my choice of words sounds British, I'm going to end up with a complex that using words like "miffed" might sound East Coast elitist. It might then become necessary for me to stick to alternative vocabulary such as "pissed off" * ... :lol: 8) :lol:
Amy
*This post is should not be taken too seriously. ;)
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