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 Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:28 am Rather good vs. quite good |
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Hi Tamara,
To my way of thinking rather doesn't often bring a negative shade. It depends on the context of the sentence.
Ex. She is rather ill (means that she is seriously ill)
She is rather attractive |
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| Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:47 am Quite/rather |
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Hi Tamara,
You could well have opened a complete can of worms by asking this but I'll have a go. Quite often conveys the idea of to a certain (but not complete) extent as in: quite good, quite interesting, quite difficult where the implication is that we haven't reached the 'very' stage -it's not very good or interesting or difficult. On the other hand quite when it is used with a word or expression that indicates fullness or completeness or entirety as in: The weather today is quite perfect/I can see that you are quite determined/ I'm sorry but you are quite wrong/I believe your attitude is quite stupid, we convey a sense of 100% qualification of the following word. Then of course the other family member in this sense of well not really is the word fairly linking with the first examples I gave (quite good etc).
Rather can be used with what you might call pleasant describing words when the speaker is putting a positive view by indicating that the qualification is better than others may think. You could say: I know you're very critiical about that book and say it hasn't made you laugh but I personally found it rather amusing. Again rather can be used also before adjectives of what you might call unfavourable flavour with the sense of very where again you want to disagree with what someone else has said. You could say: You claim that last night's play on tv was very clever but honestly I found it rather stupid. Then of course with words that are anodyne -not favourable or unfavourabe - we use rather to show our disapproval as in: I find this coffee rather hot - too hot for me.
Well, I've only scratched the surface but those are just some pointers.
Alan
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| Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:55 am Quite/rather |
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Hi Alan!
Thanks you.
| Alan wrote: | | a complete can of worms |
OK.
Not going to rather abstract (and yet a bit too difficult for me) levels,
let me take your saying as a standpoint and play a little with the can 
Just to make the difference more clear for myself.
This can is quite full. (= it’s entirely full. If we have an idea of fullness for this case and, maybe, even were moving toward its complete (!) filling. Intentionally digging out new and new worms to increase the degree of the can’s relative fullness.  ) Now it's full enough, whether it's good or bad.
This can is rather full. (= it’s entirely full, but I’m not satisfied (negative), as I’d like to accommodate some more worms.
Or I disagree with someone's previous saying/opinion about the degree of can's fullness (for example, I am asked to add a new plump worm in the can ).
(I’ve just interpreted the difference in the light of (my understanding of) your explanation and my own feeling of the difference.)
| Alan wrote: | | Again rather can be used also before adjectives of what you might call unfavourable flavour with the sense of very where again you want to disagree with what someone else has said… |
Yes, that’s exactly what I meant and tried to express by:
| Tamara wrote: | | here I don’t mean ‘negative’ as bad, but rather as 'opposite', 'contradict'. With something in the context. |
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| Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:21 am Rather! |
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(next small step…)
- Do you know him?
- Rather!
‘Dictionary’ definitions for rather allow more than one possible (different!) interpretations of the answer. Following them I could understand the answer as:
1. Not a bit! / Not at all.
2. Yes, of course! And how!
Hmm…
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| Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:38 am Rather |
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Hi Tamara,
Continuing the rather/quite saga - your use of rather in:
| Quote: | Do you know him?
Rather |
has the sense of a very fashionable adverb at the moment -absolutely and would be pronounced as two distinct syllables with the stress on the second.
Alan
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| Fri Jul 21, 2006 13:53 pm Continuing the rather/quite saga... |
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Hi!
| Alan wrote: | | a very fashionable adverb at the moment -absolutely and would be pronounced as two distinct syllables with the stress on the second. |
Rath-er?
fashionable…
OK...
This means (as dictionaries also admit for Rather! such meanings as "not for toffee!" and "nowhere near!"),
to be sure, I need to take into account how 'dandified' the writer is, and/or keep my ears open - to pick up the stress a speaker makes.
Or immigrate to the US.
| Yankee wrote: | | My American ear would be quite likely to pick out "2. Yes, of course! And how!" as the only possible meaning for rather in your example. |
Thank you, Amy. You’re lucky to have both ears "from the same mold" (two of a kind). But what would you do if one ear were of American origin and another – British?…
Let’s take a look at another creepy worm...
quite
As I understand, in the same context American and British people tend to interpret the meaning of quite a bit differently. I mean:
quite (AmE) = 'very' or 'extremely'
quite (BrE) = 'reasonably, but not very'
Well... If I want to make (pay?) a compliment, which one could be better:
1. She is beautiful.
2. She is quite beautiful.
?
(For British people it’s 1 (as 2 has a shade 'not the very, but…').)
Amy, could you say, how they sound for your ears?
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| Fri Jul 21, 2006 15:57 pm Quite rather |
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Hi Tamara,
How about this conversation?
A Do you know Emily who lives at No 45?
B Ra-ther
A I'm sorry I don't quite follow why you say ra-ther.
B Well, she's quite beautiful, isnt she?
A Do you mean a lttle beautiful or very beautiful?
B I should have thought that was quite obvious - very beautiful. Don't you agree?
A Ra-ther
B Quite
A You mean exactly?
B Quite.
A I suppose you'd rather like to take her out?
B Ra-ther
A That could be rather difficult.
B You're being quite mysterious.
A Well, I don't quite know what to say.
B I'd rather you were quite open.
A You're quite right. The fact is Emily has just got married.
B That's rather bad news.
A Quite.
Alan
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| Fri Jul 21, 2006 16:32 pm Continuing the rather/quite saga... |
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| Tamara wrote: | Let’s take a look at another creepy worm...
quite
As I understand, in the same context American and British people tend to interpret the meaning of quite a bit differently. I mean:
quite (AmE) = 'very' or 'extremely'
quite (BrE) = 'reasonably, but not very'
Well... If I want to make (pay?) a compliment, which one could be better:
1. She is beautiful.
2. She is quite beautiful.
?
(For British people it’s 1 (as 2 has a shade 'not the very, but…').)
Amy, could you say, how they sound for your ears? |
Hi Tamara
A British colleague once informed me that precise meaning of the Q-word (gasp!) depends very much on whether it is stressed or not in the sentence. Now, for me (one of those darn colonials  ) things are pretty straightforward. Saying "quite good" in American English is basically the same as saying "very good". Period. (Or should I say 'full stop?'  )
BUT
My British colleague claimed that only if I were to say "quite good" (stress on good) would the meaning be about the same as in AmE (i.e., "very good"). However, she also insisted that if the stress were to be placed on the word quite ("quite good"), then the word quite would indicate that it is good but only in an ordinary, usual sort of way. (i.e., reasonably good, but the idea of "very" isn't there) Sort of reluctantly calling something "good".
Now, I have no idea if any of this is actually true in British English. It's all hearsay for me. Who knows --- Maybe my British friend was pulling my leg.
But, if you say "quite good" in American English, that's always more than "good". Period.
Amy
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| Fri Jul 21, 2006 20:44 pm Quite |
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Hi Tamara,
All I can say to that is: Quite. Or should it be Rather? OK. Now I have quite finished. I expect you're rather pleased about that.
Have a pleasant weekend.
Alan
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| Fri Jul 21, 2006 21:12 pm Rather good vs. quite good |
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| Alan wrote: | | OK. Now I have quite finished. |
Alan… before you let me go , please, take a look at my interpretation
(just to let me know, how much of 'real English' of such level I can’t understand right)
:
A Do you know Emily who lives at No 45?
B Ra-ther (Yes, of course! [but there is some negative shade - I’d rather not to know her ]) )
A I'm sorry I don't quite (not completely) follow why you say ra-ther.
B Well, she's quite beautiful (the meaning can depend on the stress and tone /inflexion) , isnt she?
A Do you mean a lttle beautiful or very beautiful?
B I should have thought that was quite (absolutely) obvious - very beautiful. Don't you agree?
A Ra-ther (Yes, formally I agree… (…but there is some negative shade or doubt…)
B Quite (Indeed…)
A You mean exactly?
B Quite. (Yes!)
A I suppose you'd rather (prefer) like to take her out?
B Ra-ther Absolutely!
A That could be rather difficult. [not very easy  )
B You're being quite (in some degree) mysterious.
A Well, I don't quite (not completely sure) know what to say.
B I'd rather (prefer) you were quite (completely) open.
A You're quite (absolutely, very) right. The fact is Emily has just got married.
B That's rather bad (not very good ) news.
A Quite. Indeed
P.S. Anyway, Alan, I really enjoyed it. Thank you!!!
Tamara
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| Fri Jul 21, 2006 21:21 pm Rather good vs. quite good |
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Just this one more episode won't hurt now, will it?
| Quote: | Rather you than me.
said by someone who does not want to do the thing that someone else is doing:
"I've got to have two teeth out next week." "Rather you than me." |
How's that for encouragement? |
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| Difficult sentences from the book Washington Square | "Significance" vs "Importance" |
