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 Mon Aug 07, 2006 23:13 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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Hi Tamara
Here's how I would understand it:
If I said "Let's call it square", the situation might be that I owed someone something, then I gave the person something of about the same value (or did something for the other person) and now I'm suggesting that I see everything as even.
For example, a couple weeks ago I borrowed $10 from Nancy. Today I paid for Nancy's lunch and the meal cost around $10. I didn't actually give Nancy her money back, instead I paid for her lunch. When we call it square, that means we agree that I don't owe Nancy the $10 anymore.
Amy
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| Mon Aug 07, 2006 23:23 pm Square |
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Hi Tamara,
My contribution;
a square meal is a properly balanced meal in contrast to a snack
a square deal is when both sides in an agreement are satisfied
to square the circle is trying to do the impossible
some years ago square was a word describing somebody who was very unfashionable and oldfashioned
Alan
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| Mon Aug 07, 2006 23:23 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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Yes, Amy, thank you.
The situation seems the same as used on http://bits.westhost.com/idioms/id106.htm
("I bought the pizza; you bought the beer. Let's call it square.")
But what about
"We're having a party at 7 on Saturday. Be there or be square!"
http://bits.westhost.com/idioms/id64.htm
- with the following interpretation of the meaning
if you do not come we will think you are(?) call it square
?
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| Mon Aug 07, 2006 23:35 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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Amy, I know that this is another idiom.
I only meant that the interpretation of its meaning, given by using 'call it square', is rather strange for me.
I don't understand the meaning of 'call it square' here !
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| Mon Aug 07, 2006 23:36 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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By the way, you can also "square off against somone" (oppose directly) 
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| Mon Aug 07, 2006 23:42 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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OK, now I understand your question (at long last  )
That isn't intended to be part of the definition of "Be there or be square". It's just a link to the "call it square" idiom. They certainly did manage to make it confusing, though, didn't they?
Amy
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| Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:19 pm Next two steps on the 'square' road :) |
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Hi
1. square-toed
My dictionary allows two (different) meanings:
- old-fashioned, out-of-date , conservative = | Alan wrote: | | some years ago square was a word describing somebody who was very unfashionable and oldfashioned |
OR
- precise , pedantic , punctilious
Hmm...
Which one would you suppose in modern (not old-fashioned, I mean  ) use of English, if you hear that someone is called being 'square-toed'?
(By the way, last season shoes with 'square toes' were fashionable again, weren't they )
2. square one
I have an example "back to square one" where, as I understand, it means "back to the beginning"
OK.
It reminds me my childhood when we played in so-called [klassiki] – when you jump on(?) squares drawn by chalk on asphalt – in accordance to strict rules and sequencing. And return to the beginning, if fail.
(hopscotch, yes, now I know the British name of the game)
Then I found a quite good BBC Commentaries on http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/back%20to%20square%20one.html
with similar  explanation.
In this connection, my question is:
how does square one sounds for your ears when it is used in informal speaking? Does it bring some negative shade ('current failing & back to the begining" - in some sense)
or sound just neutral? (When it is used in informal speaking to characterize (or predict) smb.’s next action.)
Tamara
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| Tue Aug 08, 2006 13:04 pm Next two steps on the 'square' road :) |
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| Tamara wrote: | 2. square one
I have an example "back to square one" where, as I understand, it means "back to the beginning"
OK.
In this connection, my question is:
how does square one sounds for your ears when it is used in informal speaking? Does it bring some negative shade ('current failing & back to the begining" - in some sense) yes
or sound just neutral? (When it is used in informal speaking to characterize (or predict) smb.’s next action.)
Tamara |
Hi Tamara
I'd consider "back to square one" to be a widely used expression --- as likely to be used informally as in a business context, for example. The word "back" is key. It indicates that the first attempt was unsuccessful for some reason and therefore you need to return to the beginning and start again.
Amy
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| Tue Aug 08, 2006 19:32 pm Just "Square One" |
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Hi Amy
Thank you for the explanation.
Can I ask a bit more?
Now, when I've googled just with square one (without back to), I can see that it’s quite popular name for different shopping centers, restaurants, etc.
And I can understand the reason ("square number one" = the very beginning, starting point, something basic, true, initial, etc. - implicitly. Right?)
In this context can I imply that back to square one might be (also) understood as 'returning to background, origins' – or something the like. Some attractive meaning, I mean.
Not?
This is just my current thought, nothing more. (Just in case )
Tamara
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| Tue Aug 08, 2006 20:24 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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| Quote: | In this context can I imply that back to square one might be (also) understood as 'returning to background, origins' – or something the like. Some attractive meaning, I mean. Smile
Not? |
Hi Tamara
Maybe you should ask Torsten (the eternal optimist) about this. 
When people go "back to square one", they return to the beginning of something and have to start again. This can be very frustrating because you've already put time and effort into doing or achieving something, but for whatever reason, it didn't work. So, there is always that negative aspect in "back to square one".
On the other hand, you'll have (hopefully) also learned from your mistakes, gained experience and will be able to do it better and very successfully the second time around.
But, it's always desirable not to have to go back to square one a second time.
Amy
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