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#2 (permalink) Mon Aug 07, 2006 22:13 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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Hi Tamara
Here's how I would understand it:
If I said "Let's call it square", the situation might be that I owed someone something, then I gave the person something of about the same value (or did something for the other person) and now I'm suggesting that I see everything as even.
For example, a couple weeks ago I borrowed $10 from Nancy. Today I paid for Nancy's lunch and the meal cost around $10. I didn't actually give Nancy her money back, instead I paid for her lunch. When we call it square, that means we agree that I don't owe Nancy the $10 anymore.
Amy _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

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#3 (permalink) Mon Aug 07, 2006 22:23 pm Square |
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Hi Tamara,
My contribution;
a square meal is a properly balanced meal in contrast to a snack
a square deal is when both sides in an agreement are satisfied
to square the circle is trying to do the impossible
some years ago square was a word describing somebody who was very unfashionable and oldfashioned
Alan _________________ English as a Second Language You can read my ESL story Present Simple |
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Alan Co-founder

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#4 (permalink) Mon Aug 07, 2006 22:23 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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Yes, Amy, thank you. The situation seems the same as used on http://bits.westhost.com/idioms/id106.htm
("I bought the pizza; you bought the beer. Let's call it square.")
But what about
"We're having a party at 7 on Saturday. Be there or be square!" http://bits.westhost.com/idioms/id64.htm - with the following interpretation of the meaning if you do not come we will think you are(?) call it square ? _________________ It’s impossible to learn swimming without entering the water… |
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Tamara I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 1577 Location: UK
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#5 (permalink) Mon Aug 07, 2006 22:29 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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Hi Alan
Thank you for your contribution. Especially for to square the circle :)
The more I learn your language on my own will, the more I like it. Really!
Tamara _________________ It’s impossible to learn swimming without entering the water… |
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Tamara I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 1577 Location: UK
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#6 (permalink) Mon Aug 07, 2006 22:32 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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| Tamara wrote: |
"We're having a party at 7 on Saturday. Be there or be square!" http://bits.westhost.com/idioms/id64.htm - with the following interpretation of the meaning if you do not come we will think you are(?) call it square/ ? |
That's a different "square" idiom. :lol: That one just means that if you don't come, everyone will think of you as being unfashionable or nerdy ("square"). You'll hear the idiom said exactly that way: "Be there or be square" Don't confuse the definition of the idiom with how it's actually said.
Just like lots of other words, "square" has more than one meaning, :)
Amy _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

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#7 (permalink) Mon Aug 07, 2006 22:35 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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Amy, I know that this is another idiom. I only meant that the interpretation of its meaning, given by using 'call it square', is rather strange for me.
I don't understand the meaning of 'call it square' here ! _________________ It’s impossible to learn swimming without entering the water… |
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Tamara I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 1577 Location: UK
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#8 (permalink) Mon Aug 07, 2006 22:36 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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. By the way, you can also "square off against somone" (oppose directly) :D . _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8316 Location: USA
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#9 (permalink) Mon Aug 07, 2006 22:42 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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OK, now I understand your question (at long last :lol:)
That isn't intended to be part of the definition of "Be there or be square". It's just a link to the "call it square" idiom. They certainly did manage to make it confusing, though, didn't they?
Amy _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8316 Location: USA
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#10 (permalink) Mon Aug 07, 2006 22:42 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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| Yankee wrote: |
. By the way, you can also "square off against somone" (oppose directly) :D . |
Really?
I heard something like 'square your papers off' - in the meaning put them to right. If I didn't mix up...
Thanks, Amy, I didn't know the meaning you've mentioned.
| Quote: |
| That isn't intended to be part of the definition of "Be there or be square". It's just a link to the "call it square" idiom. They certainly did manage to make it confusing, though, didn't they? |
Ah! Now I see! Thank you! _________________ It’s impossible to learn swimming without entering the water… |
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Tamara I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 1577 Location: UK
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#11 (permalink) Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:19 am Next two steps on the 'square' road :) |
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Hi
1. square-toed
My dictionary allows two (different) meanings: - old-fashioned, out-of-date , conservative =
| Alan wrote: |
| some years ago square was a word describing somebody who was very unfashionable and oldfashioned |
OR - precise , pedantic , punctilious
Hmm... Which one would you suppose in modern (not old-fashioned, I mean :)) use of English, if you hear that someone is called being 'square-toed'? (By the way, last season shoes with 'square toes' were fashionable again, weren't they :))
2. square one
I have an example "back to square one" where, as I understand, it means "back to the beginning" OK.
It reminds me my childhood when we played in so-called [klassiki] – when you jump on(?) squares drawn by chalk on asphalt – in accordance to strict rules and sequencing. And return to the beginning, if fail. (hopscotch, yes, now I know the British name of the game)
Then I found a quite good BBC Commentaries on http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/back%20to%20square%20one.html with similar 8) explanation.
In this connection, my question is: how does square one sounds for your ears when it is used in informal speaking? Does it bring some negative shade ('current failing & back to the begining" - in some sense) or sound just neutral? (When it is used in informal speaking to characterize (or predict) smb.’s next action.)
Tamara _________________ It’s impossible to learn swimming without entering the water… |
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Tamara I'm a Communicator ;-)

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#12 (permalink) Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:04 pm Next two steps on the 'square' road :) |
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| Tamara wrote: |
2. square one
I have an example "back to square one" where, as I understand, it means "back to the beginning" OK.
In this connection, my question is: how does square one sounds for your ears when it is used in informal speaking? Does it bring some negative shade ('current failing & back to the begining" - in some sense) yes or sound just neutral? (When it is used in informal speaking to characterize (or predict) smb.’s next action.)
Tamara |
Hi Tamara I'd consider "back to square one" to be a widely used expression --- as likely to be used informally as in a business context, for example. The word "back" is key. It indicates that the first attempt was unsuccessful for some reason and therefore you need to return to the beginning and start again.
Amy _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8316 Location: USA
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#13 (permalink) Tue Aug 08, 2006 18:32 pm Just "Square One" |
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Hi Amy Thank you for the explanation.
Can I ask a bit more? Now, when I've googled just with square one (without back to), I can see that it’s quite popular name for different shopping centers, restaurants, etc. And I can understand the reason ("square number one" = the very beginning, starting point, something basic, true, initial, etc. - implicitly. Right?)
In this context can I imply that back to square one might be (also) understood as 'returning to background, origins' – or something the like. Some attractive meaning, I mean. :) Not?
This is just my current thought, nothing more. (Just in case :) )
Tamara _________________ It’s impossible to learn swimming without entering the water… |
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Tamara I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 1577 Location: UK
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#14 (permalink) Tue Aug 08, 2006 19:24 pm 'fair and SQUARE' :) |
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| Quote: |
In this context can I imply that back to square one might be (also) understood as 'returning to background, origins' – or something the like. Some attractive meaning, I mean. Smile Not? |
Hi Tamara
Maybe you should ask Torsten (the eternal optimist) about this. ;)
When people go "back to square one", they return to the beginning of something and have to start again. This can be very frustrating because you've already put time and effort into doing or achieving something, but for whatever reason, it didn't work. So, there is always that negative aspect in "back to square one".
On the other hand, you'll have (hopefully) also learned from your mistakes, gained experience and will be able to do it better and very successfully the second time around. :D
But, it's always desirable not to have to go back to square one a second time. ;)
Amy _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8316 Location: USA
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