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 Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:46 am Relative clauses |
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| tung quoc wrote: | Today is the first day......I do that. do = wrong verb tense
a.that OK, but not necessary
b.on which sounds strange/overly formal
c.which NO
d.when NO
e.nothing OK and this is the best option
1.Please fix the use of the tense in "I do that".What tense will you use here? Why?
Using the simple present tense ("I do that") in this sentence suggests a habit but that is impossible in the context (first day). Almost any other tense is possible. It depends on the (additional) context. There isn't enough context here to say which tense is the best.
Possible tenses:
- present continuous (I am doing that)
- present perfect (I have done that)
- "will" future (I will do that)
- future continuous (I will be doing that)
- "be going to" future (I am going to do that)
- "be going to" future continuous (I am going to be doing that) 
- Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing whatever it was he/she did for the first time.
(There may be further possibilities.)
2. I think all a,b,c,d and e are correct. Am I right? NO |
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| Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:56 am Relative clauses |
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Dear teacher,
You wrote:
a.that OK, but not necessary
b.on which sounds strange
c.which NO
d.when NO
e.nothing OK and this is the best
option
So, please read:
I'll never forget the day when I met you. (1)
Why in (1), that,on which,when, nothing are right but in my sentence (today is the first day...), only that and nothing are right?
2.Suppose that before, one friend of mine has ever learned his lesson. But yesterday, he did that. Can I wrote:
Yesterday was the first day when he learned his lesson.
Can I use simple past (learned) here?Why?
Can I use present perfect (has learned) here?Why?
3/ You wrote:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing whatever it was he/she did for the first time.
Did you remove the word who in whatever it was he/she did for the first time?
Quoc |
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tung quoc
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 372
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| Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:36 pm Relative clauses |
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| tung quoc wrote: | I'll never forget the day when I met you. (1)
Why in (1), that,on which,when, nothing are right but in my sentence (today is the first day...), only that and nothing are right?
Personally, I would never say "I'll never forget the day when I met you." I would either simply omit the word when or possibly replace it with that.
I'll never forget the day (that) I met you.
2.Suppose that before, one friend of mine has never learned his lesson. But yesterday, he did that. Can I write:
Yesterday was the first day when he learned his lesson.
Yesterday was the first day (that) he learned his lesson.
Can I use simple past (learned) here?Why?
Yes.
Because it's a simple statement of a complete, finished event.
- yesterday = finished
- simple past tense = finished
Can I use present perfect (has learned) here?Why?
Possibly, but I wouldn't. The whole sentence refers specifically to action in the past (yesterday) and that would require the past tense.
If you used the present perfect it would mean that yesterday's learning is finished but you would also like to indicate that there is either an extremely direct effect on the present and/or learning his lesson(s) might now continue.
Better ways to use of the present perfect would be:
"He has recently begun to learn his lessons."
"He has been learning his lessons since yesterday."
The word since gives you a starting point in the past but also clearly indicates that you're talking about from then until now.
3/ You wrote:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing whatever it was he/she did for the first time.
Did you remove the word who in whatever it was he/she did for the first time? No, the word who doesn't fit or make sense in that phrase. Why do you think who was omitted? You could possibly add "that":
"...whatever it was (THAT) he/she did for the first time." |
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Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English |
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I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
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| Sun Sep 17, 2006 13:11 pm Relative clauses |
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Dear teacher,
Thanks for your response.
Now, please read:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing whatever it was he/she did for the first time.
1/I don't understand the structure here. What does it refer to?
2/Can I write:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing whatever it was which he/she did for the first time. ?
3/Can I write:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing whatever he/she did for the first time. ? Why?
Quoc |
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tung quoc
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 372
Location: VIETNAM
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| Sun Sep 17, 2006 13:33 pm Relative clauses |
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| tung quoc wrote: | Dear teacher,
Thanks for your response.
Now, please read:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing whatever it was he/she did for the first time.
1/I don't understand the structure here. What does it refer to? it = the thing (activity) that he/she/I did for the first time today. (Because I don't know what was done, I also referred to that activity as "whatever". So, you can also say that it refers to whatever.)
2/Can I write:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing whatever it was which he/she did for the first time. ? Which is possible, but I'd prefer that
3/Can I write:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing whatever which he/she did for the first time. ? NO
4/Can I write:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing whatever (that) he/she did for the first time. ? NO
Quoc |
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English |
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I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
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| Sun Sep 17, 2006 14:08 pm Relative clauses |
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Dear teacher,
Pleas eread:
He does whatever he wants.
= He does anything that he wants.
Thus, whatever = anything that.
So,can I write:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing whatever he/she did for the first time. ? (1)
(1) means:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing anything that he/she did for the first time. ? (2)
and means:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing anything which he/she did for the first time. ? (3)
So, (1),(2), (3) are correct. How about your opinion?
Quoc |
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tung quoc
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 372
Location: VIETNAM
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| Sun Sep 17, 2006 14:58 pm Relative clauses |
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| tung quoc wrote: | Dear teacher,
Pleas eread:
He does whatever he wants.
= He does anything that he wants.
Thus, whatever = anything that.
So,can I write:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing whatever he/she did for the first time. ? (1)
(1) means:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing anything that he/she did for the first time. ? (2)
and means:
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing anything which he/she did for the first time. ? (3)
So, (1),(2), (3) are correct. How about your opinion?
(1)YES
(2), (3)NO
You've completely missed the point, Quoc.
Whatever can also mean everything and I used "whatever" in MY sentence because YOUR sentence was unclear!
If you write "I did something," the words did something don't tell me anthing specific about the activity other than it was one activity. So, the meaning could be anything or everything to me because you didn't tell me what meaning you had in mind.
So, in my original sentence I was referring to one specific activity although you didn't tell me exactly what the activity was. |
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| Sun Sep 17, 2006 17:01 pm Relative clauses |
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Dear teacher,
Please answer my doubt by explanation.
1/ Do that: More than one activity.
(1), (2), (3) have the same meaning. Am I right?
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing whatever he/she did for the first time. ? (1)
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing anything that he/she did for the first time. ? (2)
Even simple past tense (I did that) would be better than simple present if the person is already finished doing anything which he/she did for the first time. ? (3)
2/Do that :OnlyOne activity.
As you said,(1), (2), (3) doesn't have the same meaning. So, how to re_write (1) without using whatever without changing the meaning?
3/Please read: I did something. (4)
In my opinion, when hearing this sentence, there are 2 ways to understand. Firsly, something means only one activity. Secondly, something means more than one activity. Am I right?
4/Please read:
So, how to re_write (1) without using whatever without changing the meaning? (5)
(5) is correct in grammar? How to write (5) with only one word "without"without changing the meaning?
Thanks
Quoc |
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tung quoc
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 372
Location: VIETNAM
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| Sun Sep 17, 2006 19:02 pm Relative clauses |
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Quoc, I'm sorry, but I have no interest in rewriting my own sentences. The sentence that you want to talk about was a specific response to your sentence. And that sentence indicated one single activity.
| Quote: | | 1/ Do that: More than one activity. |
This would normally be understood as one activity (as was your first sentence)
Whatever (as used in my sentence) refers back to one thing that was mentioned in your sentence.
Anything would include all possible single activities, at all possible times.
In other words, anything also may refer to each activity (and each time) that was not referred to in your sentence.
| Quote: | 3/Please read: I did something. (4)
In my opinion, when hearing this sentence, there are 2 ways to understand. Firsly, something means only one activity. Secondly, something means more than one activity. Am I right? |
No, in the sentence I did something, the word something is singular and will be interpreted as a single activity.
To make it clearly plural you can say: I did a few things.
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English |
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| 'In the beginning' and 'At last' | Affirmative additions |
