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#2 (permalink) Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:34 am Say |
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Hi Tamara,
In your sentence I would say that say is the infinitive after hear. It's similar to this:
I saw you walk in the park.
I heard the birds sing in the trees.
Alan _________________ English as a Second Language You can read my ESL story Present Simple |
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Alan Co-founder

Joined: 27 Sep 2003 Posts: 13891 Location: UK
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#3 (permalink) Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:37 am 'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive? |
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Good morning II, Tamara :D
I'd say "say" is simply a bare infinitive.
"It is quite common to hear a programmer say..." = "It is quite common to hear him say,..."
You cannot say "him says" 8)
- hear him say something - see him do something - hear himself think
You can also use an -ing form sometimes in this sort of construction.
Amy _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8316 Location: USA
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#4 (permalink) Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:42 am Oops... |
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Good morning Amy, good morning, Amy :) Good morning Alan :)
Ah! A bare infinitive...
Sorry for my stupid question… :oops: :) _________________ It’s impossible to learn swimming without entering the water… |
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Tamara I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 1577 Location: UK
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#5 (permalink) Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:45 am 'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive? |
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. There are no stupid questions, Tamara. :D . _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8316 Location: USA
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#6 (permalink) Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:48 am Gerund vs. infinitive |
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It's also interesting to take a look at the differences between the infinitive and the gerund in these constructions:
I heard him speak. I saw him walking down the street.
TOEIC listening, photographs: A van in an African street |
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Torsten Learning Coach

Joined: 25 Sep 2003 Posts: 14503 Location: EU
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#7 (permalink) Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:51 am Fool on the hill :) |
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Yes, Amy, and 'there are no bad pupils, ...', of course :) :lol:
But there is (also :)) the old saying: "Just one fool can ask so many stupid questions that a thousand of wise men won’t be able to answer". (Sorry for my poor translation.) :) _________________ It’s impossible to learn swimming without entering the water… |
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Tamara I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 1577 Location: UK
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#8 (permalink) Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:33 pm Gerund vs. infinitive |
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| Torsten wrote: |
It's also interesting to take a look at the differences between the infinitive and the gerund in these constructions:
I heard him speak. I saw him walking down the street. |
Quite interesting, indeed! This is the kind of question that analytical students fancy (you know the sort I mean – the ‘vivisectionists’, bless them!) – and usually throw at you when your mind isn't at its usual peak of sharpness ( 8) ). So now, thanks to your comment, Torsten, I'll hopefully be ready for this one.
To me, ‘I saw him + ing’ means that I saw him while he was in the process of doing something (but I didn’t see the whole process). ‘I saw him + infinitive’ means I saw the whole action. Further comments would be greatly appreciated, though (especially as I fear there's more to it than just that)!
:idea: We could compile a list of tricky questions that would help us deal with the more fastidious* students!
* Another false friend (or is it?): if you are 'fastidioso' in Spanish, you are 'a pain in the neck'!! |
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Conchita Language Coach

Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 2826 Location: Madrid, Spain
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#9 (permalink) Fri Oct 06, 2006 13:02 pm Gerund vs. infinitive |
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| Conchita wrote: |
| * Another false friend (or is it?): if you are 'fastidioso' in Spanish, you are 'a pain in the neck'!! |
:lol:
I'd agree with you with regard to the difference between using the infinitve and the ing-form, Conchita.
"I saw him doing it" doesn't necessarily mean that I witnessed what he did from beginning to end. But saying "I saw him do it" indicates that I witnessed a complete act.
Amy _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8316 Location: USA
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#10 (permalink) Fri Oct 06, 2006 15:15 pm 'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive? |
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| Yankee wrote: |
- hear him say something - see him do something - hear himself think
You can also use an -ing form sometimes in this sort of construction.
Amy |
Hi, Amy, here is coming another "stupid "student! :oops: :P :lol: "hear himself think" ______mmmm, it sounds a bit strange to me, why not say "hear myself/himself thinking"? :roll: ,
F.F |
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FangFang I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 369
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#11 (permalink) Fri Oct 06, 2006 15:52 pm 'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive? |
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Hi FangFang
That one's a bit idiomatic. ;)
He told me that the neighbor's party had been so loud he couldn't hear himself think.
can't hear oneself think
Amy _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8316 Location: USA
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#12 (permalink) Fri Oct 06, 2006 20:40 pm 'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive? |
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| Amy wrote: |
| But saying "I saw him do it" indicates that I witnessed a complete act. |
1-I was sorry to see you work/ sleep like that. 2-I was sorry to see you working/ sleeping like that.
Amy, how can one see complete act of sleeping? Could you please shed some more light on this usage?
Tom |
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Tom I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 30 May 2006 Posts: 2103
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#13 (permalink) Fri Oct 06, 2006 21:03 pm 'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive? |
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| Tom wrote: |
| Amy, how can one see complete act of sleeping? Could you please shed some more light on this usage? |
That's neither my sentence nor my choice of words, Tom. :?
1-I was sorry to see you work like that. --> This sounds as though someone had to work very hard and the work is now finished. It implies that I witnessed all of whatever work is being referred to. How long the work lasted is not known. It could have been a matter of minutes, or it could have been much longer.
2 -I was sorry to see you working like that. --> This suggests that I only witnessed part of the work and it adds a sense of duration to the work.
Amy _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8316 Location: USA
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