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'It's quite common to hear a programmer say' : subjunctive?



 
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'It's quite common to hear a programmer say' : subjunctive? Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:50 am  'It's quite common to hear a programmer say' : subjunctive?
 

Hi

It is quite common to hear a programmer say, “…”

(Text written by an American, if for some reasons it’s important to be mentioned.)

To me, it should be 'says'.
Just a typo?
Or is this a case of the Subjunctive form?

Please, destroy my doubts Smile
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Say Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:34 am  Say
 

Hi Tamara,

In your sentence I would say that say is the infinitive after hear. It's similar to this:

I saw you walk in the park.

I heard the birds sing in the trees.

Alan
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'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive? Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:37 am  'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive?
 

Good morning II, Tamara Very Happy

I'd say "say" is simply a bare infinitive.

"It is quite common to hear a programmer say..." = "It is quite common to hear him say,..."

You cannot say "him says" Cool

- hear him say something
- see him do something
- hear himself think

You can also use an -ing form sometimes in this sort of construction.

Amy
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Oops... Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:42 am  Oops...
 

Good morning Amy, good morning, Amy Smile
Good morning Alan Smile

Ah!
A bare infinitive...

Sorry for my stupid question… Embarassed
Smile
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'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive? Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:45 am  'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive?
 

.
There are no stupid questions, Tamara. Very Happy
.
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Gerund vs. infinitive Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:48 am  Gerund vs. infinitive
 

It's also interesting to take a look at the differences between the infinitive and the gerund in these constructions:

I heard him speak.
I saw him walking down the street.

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Fool on the hill :) Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:51 am  Fool on the hill :)
 

Yes, Amy, and 'there are no bad pupils, ...', of course Smile Laughing

But there is (also Smile) the old saying:
"Just one fool can ask so many stupid questions that a thousand of wise men won’t be able to answer".
(Sorry for my poor translation.)
Smile
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Gerund vs. infinitive Fri Oct 06, 2006 13:33 pm  Gerund vs. infinitive
 

Torsten wrote:
It's also interesting to take a look at the differences between the infinitive and the gerund in these constructions:

I heard him speak.
I saw him walking down the street.

Quite interesting, indeed! This is the kind of question that analytical students fancy (you know the sort I mean – the ‘vivisectionists’, bless them!) – and usually throw at you when your mind isn't at its usual peak of sharpness ( Cool ). So now, thanks to your comment, Torsten, I'll hopefully be ready for this one.

To me, ‘I saw him + ing’ means that I saw him while he was in the process of doing something (but I didn’t see the whole process). ‘I saw him + infinitive’ means I saw the whole action. Further comments would be greatly appreciated, though (especially as I fear there's more to it than just that)!

Idea We could compile a list of tricky questions that would help us deal with the more fastidious* students!

* Another false friend (or is it?): if you are 'fastidioso' in Spanish, you are 'a pain in the neck'!!
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Gerund vs. infinitive Fri Oct 06, 2006 14:02 pm  Gerund vs. infinitive
 

Conchita wrote:
* Another false friend (or is it?): if you are 'fastidioso' in Spanish, you are 'a pain in the neck'!!

Laughing

I'd agree with you with regard to the difference between using the infinitve and the ing-form, Conchita.

"I saw him doing it" doesn't necessarily mean that I witnessed what he did from beginning to end.
But saying "I saw him do it" indicates that I witnessed a complete act.

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'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive? Fri Oct 06, 2006 16:15 pm  'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive?
 

Yankee wrote:

- hear him say something
- see him do something
- hear himself think

You can also use an -ing form sometimes in this sort of construction.

Amy

Hi, Amy, here is coming another "stupid "student! Embarassed Razz Laughing
"hear himself think" ______mmmm, it sounds a bit strange to me, why not say "hear myself/himself thinking"? Rolling Eyes ,

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'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive? Fri Oct 06, 2006 16:52 pm  'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive?
 

Hi FangFang

That one's a bit idiomatic. Wink

He told me that the neighbor's party had been so loud he couldn't hear himself think.

can't hear oneself think

Amy
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'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive? Fri Oct 06, 2006 21:40 pm  'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive?
 

Amy wrote:
But saying "I saw him do it" indicates that I witnessed a complete act.

1-I was sorry to see you work/ sleep like that.
2-I was sorry to see you working/ sleeping like that.

Amy, how can one see complete act of sleeping? Could you please shed some more light on this usage?

Tom
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'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive? Fri Oct 06, 2006 22:03 pm  'It's quite common to hear a programmer say:' : subjunctive?
 

Tom wrote:
Amy, how can one see complete act of sleeping? Could you please shed some more light on this usage?

That's neither my sentence nor my choice of words, Tom. Confused

1-I was sorry to see you work like that. --> This sounds as though someone had to work very hard and the work is now finished. It implies that I witnessed all of whatever work is being referred to. How long the work lasted is not known. It could have been a matter of minutes, or it could have been much longer.

2 -I was sorry to see you working like that. --> This suggests that I only witnessed part of the work and it adds a sense of duration to the work.

Amy
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