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 Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:18 am Meaning of "out of hand" |
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Thorsten
How typical of you guys! Let's let the parrot rest in peace BUT.........
Of course quickly and out of hand can have some difference; so can not acceptable and out of hand.
Are you trying to teach English here or is your main concern to protect each other? |
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Canadian45
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| Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:51 am Meaning of "out of hand" |
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Hi Canadian, do you see anyone we would have to protect ourselves against? So far, this place has been pretty safe and I'm sure we are able to keep it that way. 
By the way, do you think it is possible to teach somebody English? If so, how do you define 'teaching'?
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Torsten
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| Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:18 am Meaning of "out of hand" |
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Hi Torsten
The plural you seem to be protecting each other against someone who might disagree with one of you. "Your" comments do not seem to be impartial.
At this time I am not interested in getting into a long discussion about what teaching is but one definition can be 'helping someone learn'. |
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Canadian45
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| Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:41 am I/allusion |
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Hi Conchita,
No, I am the one who's deluded. Thanks for that and of course it should be 'allusion' and I have now edited my original covered in confusion and embarrassment.
Ilan oops Alan.
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Alan
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Yankee
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Tamara
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| Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:56 am Protect |
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Hi Canadian,
I really can't let your comment:
| Quote: | | Are you trying to teach English here or is your main concern to protect each other? |
I for one object to the suggestion that contributors on the site are trying to teach English. Obviously teaching plays a part depending on the question or comment from another contributor if by that you mean explanation by illustration. I am intrigued too by your reference today and in other postings to the concept of 'you guys'. Are you referring to the three of us Torsten, Slava and me as the three co-founders of the site? Our stalls are set out on the front of the site and I am sure the other two would agree with me that the idea that we have to 'protect' each other is ludicrous. The other regular contributors would I suggest also find the idea of 'protection' equally ludicrous but if you are interested to find out, ask them. I would like to know from what or from whom we are supposed to be 'protecting' ourselves. If you care to look back over the history of the postings, you will see that on occasion sharp words have been exchanged but we have as a sort of community heard each other out.
I hope you will take the time to explain your comments and not as last time when you were bandying around the word 'commercial' back off and say you didn't want to waste your time in further discussion. Please have the courage of your convictions and tell everyone your thinking.
Alan
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Alan
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| Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:39 am Impartial or not |
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Hi Alan
1...I don't understand your objection to the word "trying".
Firstly, if you feel insulted by my use of that word, it is a very innocuous word that I would also use when referring to myself. "trying" stresses the effort, rather than assuming there will always be a positive result. Sorry, but I really think you are being too sensitive.
I don't understand your second sentence.
2...In this instance "you (guys)" are Yankee and Thorsten. I used those words in the context of them at the same time wanting to close the discussion but also wanting to say more. I also you used them in the "teach English... or....protect each other" comment.
I will try to explain the latter comment even though the reason I said that should be clear to any objective observer. In fact I only need to refer you back to their posts and lead you through what they said.
Look at Yankee's second post, about not finding "..any dictionary definition...quickly.."etc. She conveniently ignored the question of whether she found anything for "not acceptable/unacceptable" defining out of hand. This is in spite of the fact that the dictionary definitions she posted have more similarity with "quickly" than with "not acceptable".
I can almost say ditto for Thorsten's post at the top of page 2. He felt it necessary to state that "quickly" can be not the same as "at once", while ignoring the fact that they can be the same. Furthermore, he felt it not necessary to comment on the fact that "not acceptable" and "out of hand" can be very different.
No native speaker would say to their child, Your performance on the exams was out of hand. They would say Your performance on the exams was not acceptable.
Can you now see why I think that your two colleagues were not being impartial, why I felt that they were primarily trying to help and protect you? If you still can't see that, there is nothing more I can say that would convince you! |
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Canadian45
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| Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:57 am Impartial or not |
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| canadian45 wrote: | | Look at Yankee's second post, about not finding "..any dictionary definition...quickly.."etc. She conveniently ignored the question of whether she found anything for "not acceptable/unacceptable" defining out of hand. This is in spite of the fact that the dictionary definitions she posted have more similarity with "quickly" than with "not acceptable". |
Hi Canadian45
I specifically mentioned that I hadn't found "quickly" as a definition because that was specifically the original question. It's as simple as that. I didn't "conveniently ignore" anything. I referred to the original question.
I decided to post the dictionary definitions rather than argue about things. I felt the various dictionary definitions were more than adequate to illustrate both the sense of speed and the sense of acceptability (or lack thereof) that this idiom can carry.
I do in fact believe that there is enough difference in meaning between "out of hand" and "quickly" that quickly should not be used as a definition. And that was the original question!
Amy |
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Yankee
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| Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:20 am Meaning of "out of hand" |
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By the way, if you ask me, this thread is getting out of hand. And I don't mean quickly! 
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Amy |
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Yankee
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| Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:29 am Meaning of "out of hand" |
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... is quickly getting...
(Sorry my thoughtless comment... )
...I'm just a learner here and in my learner's view, all natives who pretend to teach would put focus on initial questions (to help learners), and not on the linguistic battles (for which it would be great to have a separate forum's section).
Each language is full of pitfalls and how to deal with them - depends very much on the purpose...
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Tamara
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| Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:58 am Meaning of "out of hand" |
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Hi Tamara,
Amen to that.
A
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| As a matter of gliss | Use the expression "most probably" |
