Which or that?

[Attila]

Hi All,

I've always heard from people that I must not use the word which when there's a subject in the first part of the sentence.

e.g.

I found the file on the server which contains the information I need.
(this sounds good for me but should be incorrect)

I found the file on the server that contains the information I need.
(this should be correct)

What about when I talk about persons?

I see the man who...

or

I see the man that...

[Yankee]

Hi Attila

I don't quite understand the "rule" you've heard.

You always need which with a non-restrictive ("extra information") clause. i.e. the information in the clause is not necessary to understand the whole sentence. Which refers to things (not people).

You should use that with restrictive clauses, which is what your sentence has.

However, this "that vs which" rule isn't always followed 100% and there also doesn't seem to be 100% agreement among grammar experts, so the word which is also used in restrictive clauses sometimes.

In addition, the word which seems to refer to 'server' rather than 'file' in your sentence. I'd suggest this change:

I found the file that contains the information I need on the server.

To use which in a non-restrictive clause, you could write a sentence like this:

I found the file, which contains more information than I need, on the server.

When referring to people, who and that can both be used for restrictive clauses:

The man who (that) called is John's boss.

Only who can refer to people in a non-restrictive ("extra information") clause:

John's boss, who has been calling all morning, asked me to have John call him back the minute he gets in.

Amy
_________________
Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

[Mister Micawber]

.
I've never heard your first 'rule' about which-- I think it is apocryphal.

For restrictive (limiting) clauses, you can use either which or that, with some grammarians frowning upon which: I found the file on the server which/that contains the information I need. The only trouble with this sentence is the referent for which/that: is it file or server?

For nonrestrictive clauses, use which only: I found the file I need, which is rather large, on the server.

For persons in restrictive clauses, you can use either who or that, with some grammarians frowning upon that: I see the man who/that ate my sandwich.

For persons in nonrestrictive clauses, use who only: I see my father, who ate my sandwich, sitting on that bench.

PS: I see while editing that Yankee has beat me to the punch. Again.
.
.
_________________
Canadian-American native speaker
who teaches English for a living at Mister Micawber's
ESL cafe: Interview with Mister Micawber

[Pond969]

Yankee and MM ... I agree with all the examples you used simply because they 'sound' right to me. I'm not familiar with the grammatical terminology though... why exactly is a clause 'restrictive' or 'non-restrictive'? I don't quite grasp it.

[Mister Micawber]

.
There are a lot of online definitions and examples; HERE is one.
.
_________________
Canadian-American native speaker
who teaches English for a living at Mister Micawber's
ESL cafe: Interview with Mister Micawber

[Pond969]

Thanx muchly MM.

I've got it now...I also added that link to my 'favorites' list.

[Alan]

Hi,

Just a bit extra information can be found on the site - some notes and a story I have written:

http://www.english-test.net/lessons/21/index.html

http://www.english-test.net/lessons/22/index.html

http://www.english-test.net/lessons/23/index.html

A
_________________
English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story A spring in your step