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 #2 (permalink) Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:41 am Some questions about 'down' |
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| Haihao wrote: |
| What I wanted to know is, when we use 'down' or 'up' to indicate date or time, is it because 1900 less than NOW less than 2010 that down less than up like count down 'less than' count up? |
We can't say "go down to the 1900s" or "go up to 2010". Another native speaker might disagree with me, but time is generally expressed horizontally in English, rather than vertically. So we can go back to a previous time, and ahead to a later time, but we don't go down or up to those times.
There's an exception though, which is when we use "up" when talking about horizontal movements. When we say we go "up to" something that is horizontal from where we are (such as a person, a building, a day or a year), it means we're going to it and no farther. So someone might say, "I walked up to that lady and told her what I thought." The lady is not above the speaker; it just means that the speaker walked until he had reached the lady. Similarly, we can say, "These supplies will last us up to next April." That means the supplies will last until April, but no later.
| Haihao wrote: |
| Also, does 'down' have a sense of where the speaker stands like 'down here' and 'up there'? |
Yes. |
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Jamie (K)
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Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #3 (permalink) Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:19 am Some questions about 'down' |
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Hi Jamie,
Thank you so very much. It was really more than clear for me to understand the word and its usage. BTW, could you give me one more interpretation for the words 'downtown' and 'uptown' and their derivations?
Thanks again and in advance.
haihao |
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Haihao
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| #4 (permalink) Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:16 am Some questions about 'down' |
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| Haihao wrote: |
| BTW, could you give me one more interpretation for the words 'downtown' and 'uptown' and their derivations? |
The use of those words is very complicated, and it can vary depending on where one lives, and whether one's city has both an uptown and a downtown, or just one of them.
My metropolis has only a downtown, so I don't have to deal with the difference much. My mother grew up where there was only an uptown, and it meant more or less the same thing as "downtown". The suburb where I live has a two commercial districts that in most places would be called "uptown", but we call the first one "the village", and the next one "the hill". We contrast them to downtown, which is several miles away in the big city.
Downtown is usually the commercial district of a town or city. In large cities it has skyscrapers and other huge buildings. Uptown is usually like a second, smaller downtown, often without tall buildings. Sometimes it's at a higher elevation than downtown (on a hill, for example) and sometimes it's not. Sometimes uptown is where the richer people live, but in some towns it's not. |
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Jamie (K)
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #5 (permalink) Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:18 am Some questions about 'down' |
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A million thanks again, Jamie, for your detailed explanation. It REALLY helps.
haihao |
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Haihao
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Location: Japan
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| #6 (permalink) Fri Nov 24, 2006 16:26 pm Some questions about 'down' |
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Haihao ... just a further bit of information: In some cities, one might say "I'm going downtown" when going into the city center (that is to say the central business district), but say 'uptown' when going to a part of the city more or less still within the business district but in a direction away from the very center of the district itself.
To follow up on Jamie's response, I grew up in a city which had a downtown (originally the center of the city in earlier days and the location of government buildings and small business premises and restaurants) but on the hill behind the downtown there were several large shopping complexes and many fast-food outlets. That part of the city was often referred to as 'uptown'. |
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Pond969
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Haihao
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Location: Japan
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| #8 (permalink) Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:15 am Some questions about 'down' |
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| Haihao wrote: |
| 1. break up = cannot break further (not vertical) = ended (a relation). |
This is more or less what that means. However, if something breaks up, it just means it breaks into pieces. Sometimes the pieces can be broken into even smaller pieces. For example, "They break up dry bread and then smash it into crumbs."
| Haihao wrote: |
| 2. break down = break down to a critical level (vertical) = failed (functionally). |
Right. But note that a person can break down, meaning he has lost his composure and can't function emotionally anymore. (We can also say that a person has broken up emotionally, with almost the same meaning.) You can also say that someone's argument breaks down. He is presenting effective ideas, but suddenly some weak ideas make the whole thing ineffective. |
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Jamie (K)
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Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #9 (permalink) Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:17 am Some questions about 'down' |
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Haihao ...'break up', as an idiom, suggests a dissolution or ending of something, while 'break down' suggests a failure in normal function. To illustrate:
A couple may 'break up'... meaning that they end their romantic relationship.
School can 'break up' ... meaning the scholastic year terminates. (British usage only).
There can be a 'break down' in communications ... meaning that communications between two or more parties fails to be productive. or,
"A car engine 'breaks down' .... meaning that the engine ceased to operate properly. |
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Pond969
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| #10 (permalink) Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:36 am Some questions about 'down' |
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Just to add to the meanings, you can also use 'break up' to say 'be or cause to be overcome with laughter'.
We all broke up when Jack waltzed into the meeting dressed as a chicken.  |
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Yankee
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| #11 (permalink) Sat Nov 25, 2006 18:16 pm Some questions about 'down' |
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Hi Haihao,
On the topic of 'break' as a phrasal verb, you might care to read this, which will be online soon under 'English lessons'. It's a short story incorporating examples of break in phrasal verbs.
ESL short story: BREAKING UP
Locally they were known as Romeo and Juliet in the small village where they had lived all their lives. Actually they were Dave Owen and Maggie Stevens. It was generally assumed they would get married as they had been inseparable since they were children. When therefore the news broke out in the local pub, appropriately called the Lovers Arms, that they were breaking up, nobody could believe it. Read more
Source: http://www.english-test.net/lessons/53/index.html
Alan
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English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story Word Story: Weather |
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Alan
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| Expression: 'to play a long hand' | Okie dokey: an adjective, an adverb :) |
I would like to have a try to apply what you taught me to: