By far vs. so far

[Haihao]

Hi,

I have got a sentence like this:
Those customers are by far the most demanding we've ever had.
Why is so far incorrect?

BTW, what is the difference between kind and kindly?

haihao

[Jamie (K)]

[Haihao]

[Yankee]

Hi Haihao

Let's look at superlatives and 'by far':
I'm an English teacher and I have 4 classes on Tuesdays. Class A consists of 4 students. Class B has 5 students. Class C has 6 students. Class D has 7 students. I can say:

1) Class D has the most students.

Let's assume my schedule on Tuesdays is not full. Theoretically I could fit one more class into my schedule and I am actively looking for one more class to add to my schedule. My schedule is not yet full/complete. In this situation I could also say:

2) Class D has the most students so far.

Then someone asks me to teach a fifth class on Tuesdays. Since I have time in my schedule for one more class, I agree to take on the fifth class (Class E) in addition to the other four. This new class consists of 30 students. Now I can say:

3) Class E has the most students by far.

The number of students in Class E is many times more than the number in any of the other four classes and I can indicate this fact by adding 'by far' to the sentence. 'By far' adds a comparative aspect to the sentence in that 'by far' tells you that the difference between the highest number (30) and the second highest number (7) is extremely large.

In example 3, I would not be able to say 'so far' because after the addition of Class E, my schedule on Tuesdays was full. I can't add any further classes to my schedule.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kindly
Take a look at what is written under 'synonyms' in this link:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kind

This should help you understand the difference in usage. The word 'kindly' isn't used as an adjective as often as 'kind' is. But, when 'kindly' is used as an adjective, I'd say it tends to have a more general, less specific meaning and would also be used to describe mainly people -- whereas 'kind' can also be used to describe things (i.e. a kind word, a kind letter, etc.)

Why don't you try writing (and posting) a few sentences using 'kindly' as an adjective and then we can give you feedback as to whether you've got it right or not. :D

Amy
_________________
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln

[Haihao]

I guess your explanations have blown away all my confusions about 'by far' and now let me try the 'kind' and 'kindly'.

***********

Thank you very much, Jamie and Amy, for your ever and again kind interpretations. I can also feel your kind consideration and kindly help for my English learning. I am very happy that I can enjoy staying here with all the kindly teachers and friends under this kindly environment. :)

haihao

[Yankee]

Hi Haihao

Hmmm...
The word 'kind' is used as an adjective far more often than 'kindly' is. In all of your 'kindly' examples, I'd prefer 'kind' (or a different adjective). Possibly 'kindly teachers'... but in view of some of the discussions that have taken place here, I'm not so sure... 8)

Take a look at this BNC search:
http://sara.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/saraWeb?qy=kindly

You will see 50 sentences containing the word 'kindly'. Most of the usages are as adverbs, but a few are as adjectives. In all cases (except one) in which 'kindly' is used as an adjective, it refers directly to a person and describes the person's general manner/disposition/appearance. In the one exception, it refers to a person's face and how it looks. The person's face reflects the person's general, overall manner. So, it still refers pretty directly to a person.

You should avoid using 'kindly' (adjective) to describe anything other than a person. If you want to play it very safe, stick to using 'kindly' as an adverb. :lol:

Maybe Jamie will have some further input for you.

Amy
_________________
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln

[Haihao]

Hi Amy,

Thank you for the help again. I would like to play it very safe and stick to the most common usage.

The resources you gave me for looking up a word or its usage are really wonderful. Could you reccommend more for me? Maybe I could visit them first before asking too many superfluous questions.

haihao

[Yankee]

Hi Haihao

This is the BNC website. You will get good examples of usage with a "British flavor" here:
http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/

And this is a link to the New York Times. You can also search for words in context here and you'll get examples of usage with an "American flavor":
http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?query=kindly&srchst=nyt

To find definitions in a lot of different dictionaries, use this website:
http://www.onelook.com/
http://www.onelook.com/?w=kindly&ls=a

Among the online dictionaries, Dictionary.com frequently provides good information about usage (rather than just definitions) and I find the site quite user-friendly. An example for the word 'farther':
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=farther

Hope that helps.

Amy
_________________
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln

[Haihao]

Helps coolest! :) Thank you so very much, Amy!

haihao