Expression: 'up to the mark'

[Haihao]

English Idioms and Expressions, Advanced Level

ESL/EFL Test #25 "Mark Idioms", question 7

They were very fussy about their products and any item not up to the mark was discarded.

(a) of a fair standard
(b) of a reasonable standard
(c) of a high standard
(d) of a hard standard

English Idioms and Expressions, Advanced Level

ESL/EFL Test #25 "Mark Idioms", answer 7

They were very fussy about their products and any item not of a high standard was discarded.

Correct answer: (c) of a high standard
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Hi,

Is a) incorrect because 'a fair standard' is a bad collocation?

haihao

[Mister Micawber]

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No, there is nothing wrong with the collocation, except that standards are seldom only 'fair' (= 'of no exceptional quality or ability'). 'Fair' is simply not good enough here: 'they are fussy', therefore they expect a high standard.
.
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Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's

[Stew.t.]

This is an interesting phrase that could be re-phrased into colloquial English;

They were very finicky about their products and any item that wasn?t the dogs bollocks was chucked.

Now for students, please guess where this delightful phrase would be from?
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Please meet Stewart Tunncilff

[Yankee]

"The dogs bollocks" doesn't just sound colloquial to me, Stew. It sounds downright vulgar.
Do you think that expression is used in American English? (I'd never heard it before.)

Out of curiosity, do you encourage your students to write "please"?

Amy

[Alan]

Hi Amy,

It's an expression I've heard many times before but I agree that anyone who resorts to teaching students vulgar expressions is sadly scraping the barrel and certainly has no place on this site, please.

A
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English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story A day in the life of a flat hunter

[James]

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...I'm not sure if I'm qualified enough but I feel I'm not for vulgar expressions either as a 'teacher' any less than the instant idea of excluding any different sense/idea holders as a d?mocratie seeker or advocator.
.

[Alan]

Hi James,

What exactly do you mean?

A
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English as a Foreign Language
You can read my EFL story Phrasal Verbs/look

[Stew.t.]

The phrase is used and no I do not directly teach it however may have to make students aware of the so called "vulgar" phrases. We can go back and forth on what is right and wrong to teach, but exposure to all forms of English is beneficial for a student especially if they wanna immerse themselves in the culture.

Then there is also the issue of what is "vulgar" and not.

Sorry did not mean to insult, but please (as an sms, e-mail, forum short form acceptable) lighten up guys.
_________________
Please meet Stewart Tunncilff

[Yankee]

Hi Stew

I agree that it's good for learners to be aware of various forms and registers of a language. I know quite few Germans who have had two-year job assignments in the US. Many knew very little slang or vulgar language in English before leaving Germany and inevitably they ended up learning the vulgar stuff in bars from some willing American colleagues, over many pitchers of beer. A problem that frequently arose was that they misjudged the severity (or lack thereof) of such words and expressions and therefore often used them inappropriately. I had one student who actually thought the word "f*#k" was much milder than the word "silly"! (If someone lives and works on Long Island, NY, for example, using the "F-word" is not much of a big deal. But if you use that word with regularity elsewhere, it will shock many people.) The point is, so-called "standard" English is basically "safe" in any situation. Colloquial language and slang aren't always "safe" and also not always universally understood. Vulgar language is the riskiest of all.

I've been teaching Business English in Germany for the last 17 years. My concern is first and foremost that my students get "proper" English right. I also include information about slang and typical business buzzwords in lessons. I don't avoid discussions of vulgar language, and I think it's important for learners to know what is vulgar enough to offend and what is relatively harmless. Simply calling vulgar language "colloquial" is not enough input in my opinion. Learners are often not able to judge vulgar and slang language on their own very well -- and sometimes the "damage" has already been done before they realize how inappropriate the language they've been using was.

Many -- maybe even a majority -- of the people using this site have to take and pass language tests. While colloquialisms, horrendous slang and foul language may be "fun", that sort of language generally won't help much with the TOEFL, for example.

I hope you understand my reaction better now.

Amy