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 #2 (permalink) Sat Dec 30, 2006 15:09 pm Saddam Husein has been executed |
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| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
I know people from many Countries come here
I'm very interested what do you think of this ? |
Hi CHE!
I think Saddam never had been a choirboy and he himself was responsible for many murders and didn?t ever care what his victims might have felt. He had played on a high level and finally have lost. And like you mentioned even his death is followed by further victims. For me Saddam isn?t a martyr for the Islam although he might have claimed that but a selfish dictator who just tried to use the Islam to achieve his very personal goals. In that sense I don?t pour any tear for him.
| CHE GUEVARA wrote: |
| In my opinion Saddam used to be a dictator,but I didn't like the way how this problem has been sold... |
CHE, sorry, did you mean solved(solve) instaed of sold(sell)?
| CHE GUEVARA wrote: |
| I don't support this war ,and I think it' s all because of oil,not for democracy... |
Seriously, I myself can?t support any war but when the Americans entered the war in 2003 Saddam Hussein was going to conquer the Kuwait to usurp their Oil-fields which he considered the possesion of his clan not his religious community. So you surely are right with your statemant about the oil but at least the oil isn?t in the hand of a fanatic self-loving dictator finally.
Just my humble opinion!
Michael |
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Fan Of Arabian Horses
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| #3 (permalink) Sun Dec 31, 2006 17:53 pm Saddam Husein has been executed |
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Hi Fan of Arabian horses
Yes I meant -solved(mistake)
Saddam was a president of this Country... Iraq is an independent Country, this Oil is in Iraq so it has to be in their possession...
and if this Oil comes into USA possession, this can't democracy, that will be violence...
None of the terrorists were from Iraq I mean 9/11
First I heard Iraq terrorists after US Forces bombed their houses...
We all see, people dying every day in Iraq..
American are not welcome in there,they have killed enough people ,
so I think US Forces have to leave this Country as soon as possible
I still think USA is the most democratic Country in the world..
but their soldiers have used much more violence then Binladen...
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Che Gevara
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| #4 (permalink) Sun Dec 31, 2006 20:52 pm Saddam Husein has been executed |
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| Fan of Arabian horses wrote: |
| Seriously, I myself can?t support any war but when the Americans entered the war in 2003 Saddam Hussein was going to conquer the Kuwait to usurp their Oil-fields which he considered the possesion of his clan not his religious community. So you surely are right with your statemant about the oil but at least the oil isn?t in the hand of a fanatic self-loving dictator finally. |
Also, the motives of some governments, such as that of France, when they tried to prevent Saddam from being deposed, were also all about oil. French companies had extremely large illegal oil contracts with the government of Iraq, and if Saddam was deposed, as he was, they stood to lose all that future revenue. Also, as attested by Iraqi government documents, Saddam was using oil vouchers worth millions of dollars to bribe officials in France, some other countries, and in the United Nations, to side with him politically to get sanctions dropped. These were the countries that screamed the loudest about it being a "war for oil", but most of them were willing to support a genocidal dictator to get oil and revenue themselves.
The US gets only a small fraction of its oil from Iraq. Most of it comes from the US itself, Canada and Mexico. |
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Jamie (K)
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Che Gevara
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| #6 (permalink) Sun Dec 31, 2006 23:17 pm Saddam Husein has been executed |
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| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
Saddam was a president of this Country... Iraq is an independent Country, this Oil is in Iraq so it has to be in their possession...
and if this Oil comes into USA possession, this can't democracy, that will be violence... |
I wish my Iraqi friends wrote good enough English to debate this with you. They would tell you that Saddam was the president of his country the way Hitler was president of his country. Or the way Stalin was president of his country. Same methods, same mustache, same rise to power. Having spent a lot of time with Iraqis, I can tell you it's absolutely absurd for someone to think Saddam was the legitimate ruler of Iraq.
| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
| None of the terrorists were from Iraq I mean 9/11 |
Saddam was providing financial support and training for foreign terrorists and suicide bombers, and he was giving big money to their families, and most of the support he was providing was not to Iraqi terrorists, but foreign ones.
| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
| First I heard Iraq terrorists after US Forces bombed their houses... |
It's always sad when civilians get killed. It's also sad when combatants deliberately use civilian houses to shoot from, then get civilians killed, and then show it on TV as if there were no reason to shoot at that house. It's also interesting when they move corpses from one house to another for photo opportunities.
One of the Iraqis I know had a very scary phone conversation with a friend back in Iraq during the US invasion. The man said he was as good as dead, because Iraqi forces had placed an anti-aircraft gun on the top of his house and were shooting at American and British planes. If he left his house, the Iraqi forces would kill him, but if he stayed in his house, he might die from an American bomb aimed at the anti-aircraft weapon. It's an old media trick. That strategy of shooting from civilian dwellings has been used in El Salvador, in Iraq, and it's used in Palestine. It makes for dramatic TV and graphic but deceptive propaganda.
| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
| We all see, people dying every day in Iraq. |
Have you been counting up who's killing who? Who is doing most of the killing? Is it the Americans? Who is driving car bombs into crowds of civilians? Who is kidnapping and torturing people in order to extort money from them or their relatives abroad and finance more killing? Who is blowing up churches? Who is raping and murdering women for being Christian? Is it the Americans? You need to pay attention not only to how much blood there is, but to who is shooting and blowing up the bombs. I talk daily to people these things happened to, and to their relatives.
| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
| American are not welcome in there,they have killed enough people, so I think US Forces have to leave this Country as soon as possible |
The Iraqis themselves tell me that they want the foreign Muslim fighters who are sponsored by Iran, Syria and other countries out of Iraq. They claim they are the ones who are targeting civilians. Their relatives back home complain that parts of Iraq have been so infiltrated with them that they're afraid of everyone, not knowing who is local and who is a foreign terrorist.
| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
I still think USA is the most democratic Country in the world..
but their soldiers have used much more violence then Binladen... |
You clearly have trouble making moral distinctions, and you also form opinions without getting a lot of detail. In fact, if you'd bothered to get the full facts of the life of Che Guevara, you wouldn't admire him so much. (Or if you happen to be a Stalin admirer, maybe you would.) Here's a good article on him to start with.
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1535 |
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Jamie (K)
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| #7 (permalink) Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:02 am Saddam Husein has been executed |
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Hey,I don't care what your Iraqi friends think,but I know Americans are not welcome in Iraq...
I've seen pictures and vids what they've been doing in Iraq..
You say Saddam was providing terorists with weapons and money,but it's not true because you and people like you say that... it's not proved ...
I remember your president talking that Iraq has nuclear weapon,We are all in danger,so where is it ,why hasn't it found yet ?
I'm really sorry,so many people have died and will die, because 1 man's stupid decision
Stalin made many mistakes and many bad thing but he saved the world from Nazists ..He , and beleive me you don't know he's biography better then I do ..
but now I'm not going to talk about Stalin...
and Chegevara was ok..
So it's not your business who I admire...
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Che Gevara
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| #8 (permalink) Mon Jan 01, 2007 13:59 pm Saddam Husein has been executed |
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Hello,
in fact I don't prefer talk in this subject,but when I hear some lies like Jamie (K)'s talk ...
here I have to tell the truth.
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| I wish my Iraqi friends wrote good enough English to debate this with you. They would tell you that Saddam was the president of his country the way Hitler was president of his country. Or the way Stalin was president of his country. Same methods, same mustache, same rise to power. Having spent a lot of time with Iraqis, I can tell you it's absolutely absurd for someone to think Saddam was the legitimate ruler of Iraq. |
Really, I wish if you had some another eyes to be able see what happen now in Iraq, almost all Iraqis are very sad these days... why?!!
Ask this question for your friends.
Oh yes They can't talk English…oh my Allah.. How they can tell you that?! That very strange..
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Saddam was providing financial support and training for foreign terrorists and suicide bombers, and he was giving big money to their families, and most of the support he was providing was not to Iraqi terrorists, but foreign ones. |
Hey, intelligent man …
You forgot your government when gave Saddam all kinds of weapons in first gulf war against Iran.
Saddam was the mollycoddle man for your government and the most his weapons were made in USA.
Again, you are very bad in history.
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| It's always sad when civilians get killed. It's also sad when combatants deliberately use civilian houses to shoot from, then get civilians killed, and then show it on TV as if there were no reason to shoot at that house. It's also interesting when they move corpses from one house to another for photo opportunities. |
I wonder, why your Iraqi friends, they didn't tell you what happened in Iraq since USA go in to it.
Oh yes ... I'm Sorry They can't talk in English.
Ok... read this article and if you want I have more.
this article prove real Killer for Iraqi civilians!!!
Read it carefully ..
This article wrote by your Country
CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. - Eight Marines were charged Thursday in the killings of 24 Iraqi civilians last year during a bloody, door-to-door sweep in the town of Haditha that came after one of their comrades was killed by a roadside bomb.
If you want read all it and this link
On the Net:
Marine Corps Iraq Investigations:
http://www.usmc.mil/lapa/iraq-inv
estigations.htm
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| That strategy of shooting from civilian dwellings has been used in El Salvador, in Iraq, and it's used in Palestine. It makes for dramatic TV and graphic but deceptive propaganda. |
And you have prefect strategy " destroy all things and nobody (men & women & babies ) in this country still alive they must die".
Remember what your Army did in Faloja City in Iraq and what Israel Army did in city Jinninn.
I have a lot of photos for truth and I can show them to you but I sure you will say (Arabs always use media) Ok just you do search on net and you will find these photos.
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Who is raping and murdering women for being Christian? Is it the Americans? |
You see..
Really, you intelligent man.
pravoe.... you answer on your question .
Read again in this web
Marine Corps Iraq Investigations:
http://www.usmc.mil/lapa/iraq-inv
You will find real person who raping and murdering women?
Some of American soldiers raping woman and murdering her with all her family In Iraq.
Open your eyes Mr. intelligent.
Oh ... don't angry from me ... that from your Investigations.
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| The Iraqis themselves tell me that they want the foreign Muslim fighters who are sponsored by Iran, Syria and other countries out of Iraq. They claim they are the ones who are targeting civilians. Their relatives back home complain that parts of Iraq have been so infiltrated with them that they're afraid of everyone, not knowing who is local and who is a foreign terrorist. |
For that cause most Iraqis leave their country and they live in Syria and Iran.
Why they do that? Mr. intelligent
Because, they want Live with terrorists!!.
Really some time I feel in sadness on you...
Poor man YOU.
So you love read …
That sounds good
Read Jimmy Carter's book: "Palestine Peace Not Apartheid"
I have more reports about Iraq Like report's Peker hamleton and report from royal Britain institute.
Read them, but...
You must open your mind first and your eyes second
Mr. intelligent.
In the end happy new year and Eid mubarak For you. 
Mba
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Dark Magician
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| #9 (permalink) Mon Jan 01, 2007 14:37 pm Saddam Husein has been executed |
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| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
| Hey,I don't care what your Iraqi friends think,but I know Americans are not welcome in Iraq. |
That depends whose news you watch and who talks to you. I assume (possibly wrongly) that you don't know any Iraqis at all, because if you did, your ideas would not be so simplistic. You also don't seem aware that most of Iraq is safe now and that the media are focusing on Baghdad and a few hot spots. I know for sure that in safe places like Kurdistan the Americans and the British are welcome, and that most people in those places don't want them to leave yet.
| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
| I've seen pictures and vids what they've been doing in Iraq. |
There's that "I've seen pictures" thing. Do you ever know the details of what led up to whatever you see in the picture? Do you always know whether the picture is staged or not? (Staging phony pictures is very common in the Middle East.) Do you know whether the picture has been manipulated in Photoshop? (Remember a few months ago when Reuters had to remove all of one "journalist's" Middle Eastern photos from its website because they had been very obviously staged or altered in Photoshop? It got to be called "fauxtography", and it's very easy to find it documented on the Internet, if you are motivated.)
Do you ever know what happened after the photos were taken? One example: The foreign media (and ours) got a lot of mileage out of those sick photos of what a few soldiers did in the Abu Graib prison in Iraq. What they did was nothing compared to what Saddam's police routinely did to people, but it was scandalous nonetheless. The foreign media (and I read some of them) seldom reported that the reason the media had the photos at all was that the US military had already been investigating the problem. Most foreigners also don't know that shortly after, the soldiers who did those things were put on trial and that they are now in prison.
| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
| You say Saddam was providing terorists with weapons and money,but it's not true because you and people like you say that... it's not proved ... |
The links have been amply proven by documents seized from the Iraqi government after the invasion. I'm sorry they didn't get into your newspapers.
| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
| I remember your president talking that Iraq has nuclear weapon,We are all in danger,so where is it ,why hasn't it found yet ? |
Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Bush never said Saddam had a nuclear weapon, because he didn't. He was, however, working on one, and Iraqi scientists led the troops to buried parts of it after the war. The concern at that time was that he had or was developing other kinds of weapons of mass destruction, and it's known that he was developing various portable means for terrorists to deliver nerve gas and other toxic substances. After the war in 1991, he switched to more mobile development facilities that could be moved very quickly. The reason Hans Blix and his UN weapons inspection teams never found them on their "surprise inspections" was that starting in the late 1990s Saddam had paid agents on those UN teams who notified the facilities of the "surprise inspections" a couple days ahead of time. This is all well documented. I'm sorry it wasn't in your newspapers.
| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
| I'm really sorry,so many people have died and will die, because 1 man's stupid decision |
It's not one man's decision. He doesn't make those decisions on his own. No president does.
| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
| Stalin made many mistakes and many bad thing but he saved the world from Nazists ..He , and beleive me you don't know he's biography better then I do .. |
Was it a mistake when Stalin ordered the starvation of 10 million Ukrainians? Since the KGB has opened some of its archives, that document can now be read both in Russian and in English translation. Killing those 10 million was no mistake. Ten million was about the same number that Hitler had killed, and Stalin wasn't even half finished yet. Were those gulag camps all set up by mistake? Were the people all arrested by mistake? Did Stalin order the murder of some of his assistants by mistake?
The claim that Stalin saved the world from the Nazis is also a joke. He signed a non-aggression pact with Hitler (in other words, a type of alliance) and didn't oppose him until 1941 when the Nazis attacked the USSR. That means that the USSR and the US entered the war in the same year.
And how absurd is it to say that a Soviet dictator saved the world from a German dictator, when the Soviet dictator was also totalitarian and was responsible for the deaths of three times as many people? Go to the Czech Republic, to Slovakia, to Poland, to Romania and talk to the older people there. They'll tell you that Stalin may have driven the Nazis out of their countries, but he definitely did not liberate them.
| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
| but now I'm not going to talk about Stalin... |
You put your foot in your mouth when you do.
| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
and Chegevara was ok..
So it's not your business who I admire... |
Since you defend Stalin, it's pretty clear that you admire genocidal dictators, so it's understandable that you would admire Che Guevara and would not be open to learning enough to challenge what you think you know about him. |
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Jamie (K)
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Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #10 (permalink) Mon Jan 01, 2007 15:44 pm Saddam Husein has been executed |
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I do not defend Stalin and don't say who I admire, you know nothing about me ... he saved my Country and the whole world from Hitler and this is the fact...
I am now talking about US Troops in Iraq and saying that they are against Iraqi people's will ,in this Country
I think this war is because of oil and this oil belongs to Iraq not anyone else.( I mean USA).
I'm from Georgia, We have now very tensive relationship with Russia, if any of them comes here and tell me to get out of my house ,I will kill him...
I don't see the point in debating with you on this issue...
US troops have to leave this Country,as soon as possible and this is the only right decision
I'm just interested,what people who come here think of that....
Now I know your opinion,thank you..
What do you mean "You put your foot in your mouth when you do" are you trying to offend me ?
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Che Gevara
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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Location: Tbilisi, Georgia
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| #11 (permalink) Mon Jan 01, 2007 17:14 pm Saddam Husein has been executed |
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| CHE GEVARA wrote: |
I'm really sorry,so many people have died and will die, because 1 man's stupid decision
I think this war is because of oil and this oil belongs to Iraq not anyone else |
Hi,CHE GEVARA 
don't care in J.K's talk
is nothing just lie
yes CHE GEVARA that's the truth.
Hey Mr.intelligent
ask your iraqi friends (if really you have iraqi friends...)
why your army?.... when went in Baghdad didn't care in any ministry else this ministry " Oil ministry"
they went in it before they searched on the weapons.
Ok... they can't talk in english... no problem
ask Ramsfalte about his companies which work in Iraq...
I guess he can talk in english
have ever been asked yourself why I called on you "W.Osama ben laden"
Look in your writing
"You put your foot in your mouth when you do"
you have the same ideas of grudge on all people in the world Like Osama ben laden
Mba
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Dark Magician
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| #12 (permalink) Mon Jan 01, 2007 18:21 pm Saddam Husein has been executed |
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| Quote: |
he saved the world from Nazists ..He , and beleive me you don't know he's biography better then I do ..
he saved my Country and the whole world from Hitler and this is the fact... |
Hi Che
Facts?…
Hmmmmmm…
Do you know something about the pre-war Soviet-German (Stalin-Hitler) friendship and their coordinated plans? About ‘separate peace’?
About, just for one example, the joined (Soviet & German) army parade in Brest in 1939?
Below are just two photographs of that 'historical event'...
(Make 'View picture' if they don't open the first time)
27-28 September, 1939, Brest
and who ‘took the salute’ – from the Russian side, from the German side?...
Brest, 1939
Do you know some quite famous historical evidence about the Stalin's readiness to haggle with Hitler in October, 1941 (!!!)…
Sorry for my using Russian below… this is just a fragment from an article from a respectable journal that has and keeps quite a good archive of historical documents.
| Quote: |
"...
главная игра шла не с союзниками, а с Гитлером. Сокрушительно заигравшись с ним в довоенный период, Сталин пытался торговаться.
Принципиально важные детали этого торга всплыли в середине 1960-х. И опять же были связаны с тем сталинским заданием, смысл которого так по-разному трактовали шеф НКВД Берия и подчиненный ему генерал Судоплатов. Вольно или невольно, но эту загадочную разноголосицу снял источник, в точности которого трудно сомневаться. Оказывается, во время того памятного конфиденциального разговора в кремлевском кабинете 7 октября 1941 года кроме его хозяина и двух наркомов находился еще один свидетель. Это был командовавший тогда войсками под Москвой генерал Г. Жуков.
В своих послевоенных воспоминаниях маршал признался, что в тот момент просто отказывался верить своим ушам: Сталин совершенно однозначно давал Берии "указание через свою агентуру прощупать возможность быстрейшего заключения с Германией сепаратного мира".
Жуков, надо полагать, был бы в еще большем шоке, если бы ведал, какой ценой. Об этом в своей объяснительной записке от 7 августа 1953 года в Совет министров СССР чистосердечно поведал Судоплатов. Раскрывая подробности получения задания от своего шефа, генерал пишет: "В перечне вопросов для Стаменова, которые Берия, без конца заглядывая в свою записную книжку, мне зачитал, значился следующий: "Устроит ли немцев передача Германии таких советских земель, как Прибалтика, Украина, Бессарабия, Буковина, Карельский перешеек?". |
...
http://www.ogoniok.com/4974/29/
There are lots of other facts you probably are not very familiar with... They are not the 'lie', they are not Stalin’s ‘mistakes’… he rarely made mistakes.
That’s just historical evidence… Alas…
...They were two very similar cannibals... Two of the kind...
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Tamara
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Che Gevara
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| #14 (permalink) Mon Jan 01, 2007 19:24 pm Saddam Husein has been executed |
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| Quote: |
| This Topic is not about them... |
I understand that.
| Quote: |
| If you want to talk about Stalin,Hitler,Soviet Union or dictatorial regime in Russia... |
I?
Not a bit.
But this just not the first time when you do some 'strong' statement (this time it related to Stalin), making emphasis on your 'great knowledge of history' - but, to be honest, I actually didn't see - not once - you could support your point correcty, other than just by some "emotional claims"...
PS I'm about to start supposing that 'to hate' anf 'to fight' are your favorite English verbs...
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