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 #17 (permalink) Mon Jan 08, 2007 21:02 pm Which words won't they quit using? |
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Where for the love of mike do you think 'English' has come from?
A
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Alan
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| #18 (permalink) Mon Jan 08, 2007 21:20 pm Which words won't they quit using? |
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Hi Alan
To my way of thinking, what Jamie described is not something that happens only in the US. I saw exactly the same sort of phenomenon often enough during my 17 years in Germany -- but in Germany it was non-native speakers of German who had trouble learning German and adapting to life and the culture in Germany. There are simply some people who don't cope with or accept foreign languages and culture very well.
Amy |
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Yankee
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| #19 (permalink) Mon Jan 08, 2007 21:22 pm Which words won't they quit using? |
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| Alan wrote: |
| The more you contribute to this forum and others, the more you quote examples of what people have said to you about Americans, the more I wonder at and marvel at the sorts of people you encounter in your daily life. Invariably you seem to come across sharp critics of and debunkers of both the American way of life and the English that they speak. Why should this be so or is it an illusion I am living under? |
This is a very interesting question. Let me refer you first to part of a message that Amy has recently posted:
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| As a native speaker of American English, I can't even begin to count the number of times I've had that sort of comment (slang) thrown at me by Brits or by ESLs who have had it drilled into their heads by various English teachers that American English is somehow inherently sub-standard and slang, that our vocabulary is somehow flawed, that our pronunciation is "wrong". |
To some degree, Alan, I think you're a little bit out of it on this matter, because, as a UK resident, there are certain experiences you've never had. You've never been an American teaching English in a foreign environment where people have been taught warped conceptions of what English is, and inaccurate historical and linguistic notions about how "American English" came about. Secondly, you've probably never been given the job of trying to culturally orient foreigners who have been transferred to the United States, either to live long-term or to get "international experience". I have been in both positions, and this is why I run into these people.
Another aspect of it is that no matter where you live in the world, some Los Angeles oriented vision of the United States is pushed in your face a minimum of 14 times a day, and people have opinions and want to test them on real Americans. They get other impressions through news media that are either filtered or don't contain the whole story due to lack of space or lack of budget to translate opposing details and viewpoints. This can make an American abroad a magnet for the kind of person who wants to wag his finger in the face of a real Yankee. Add to this all the strange ideas people concoct in other countries -- that there are no fat people in the US, that everyone is fat in the US, that America has many restaurants that are "operated completely by machine", that Americans drink whiskey instead of beer because that's what the cowboys drank in the Karl May novels (which Americans have not read), that nude beaches are normal in the US, that Americans are prudes, that Americans are promiscuous, that the president is Hitler, that the president doesn't assert his power enough, that everyone in the US gets rich from doing absolutely nothing -- and it results in a lot of people approaching whatever American they see and demanding an explanation. Then some of them will argue with any explanation you give them, in order to preserve whatever their preconception is, positive or negative.
In fairness, I have to say that only a minority of the foreigners I deal with here from day to day think or behave like this, but there are enough of them to affect my life and worldview. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #20 (permalink) Mon Jan 08, 2007 23:14 pm Which words won't they quit using? |
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Hi Jamie,
Interesting but just imagine all the baggage an English person carries around with them! Just imagine now!
A
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Alan
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| #21 (permalink) Tue Jan 09, 2007 17:31 pm Which words won't they quit using? |
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| Alan wrote: |
| Interesting but just imagine all the baggage an English person carries around with them! Just imagine now! |
I'd love you to tell what that baggage is. (I seriously want to know about it!) In any case, I don't think it's as common anymore for people in other countries to grab that baggage out of the Englishman's hand and start hitting him with it -- probably not even in the former colonies. The British have the general reputation around the world of being civilized (even the British who are not). I also don't hear all the weird conspiracy theories about Great Britain that I hear about the US, so I don't think you'd get as much guff from people as we do.
Anyway, please tell me about the Englishman's burden. This is my first chance to hear about it. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #22 (permalink) Tue Jan 09, 2007 18:06 pm Which words won't they quit using? |
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English cuisine is the Englishman's burden.
hehe
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Prezbucky
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| #23 (permalink) Tue Jan 09, 2007 20:12 pm Which words won't they quit using? |
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Hi,
My feeling is that you guys should lighten the heavy chips on your shoulders. I wasn't talking about burden but baggage!
A
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| #24 (permalink) Tue Jan 09, 2007 20:16 pm Which words won't they quit using? |
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Alan/all
As long as the chip isn't a buffalo chip or a cow chip, i don't pay much attention to the chip on my shoulder.
Alan
Assuming Bill Shakespeare is #1... who's England's #2 poet all-time?
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Prezbucky
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| #25 (permalink) Tue Jan 09, 2007 20:24 pm Which words won't they quit using? |
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William Wordsworth (1770-1850) before he lost the plot or John Keats who died too young (1795-1821)
A
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Alan
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| #26 (permalink) Tue Jan 09, 2007 20:31 pm Which words won't they quit using? |
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Thanks, Alan.
I Wandered Lonely As A Cloud, To My Brothers and When I Have Fears That I May Cease To Be are three of my favorite poems.
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Prezbucky
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| #27 (permalink) Tue Jan 09, 2007 21:10 pm Which words won't they quit using? |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| ....................................., but is just refusing to think in English. |
..........and I yet started thinking that using a language to clarify some issues in mind could possibly be an evidence of stupidity!  |
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Fan Of Arabian Horses
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| #28 (permalink) Tue Jan 09, 2007 22:40 pm Which words won't they quit using? |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| What I began the thread talking about was when people will not stop using certain foreign words, even though there are already English words for exactly the same concept, even though no one understands them, and even though it's obvious that native speakers aren't accepting the word. Someone who won't stop saying "carr?" or "friseur" is not trying to insert a wonderful new concept into English, but is just refusing to think in English. |
Hi Jamie,
I think the situation you are describing here might occasionally happen in a so called "English class" or any other kind of training program that is organized by the government. As soon as the people you are referring to start communicating with native English speakers or anyone who speaks a standard type of English, they will have to change their language habits provided they want to advance in their careers and live a happy life. It's one thing if you try to teach English to a group of 10 to 15 'foreigners'. It's something completely different if a foreigner works in an American company and that foreigner uses words none of their co-workers, supervisors and customers understands. How long do you think that foreigner would continue using those words?
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| #29 (permalink) Wed Jan 10, 2007 0:27 am Which words won't they quit using? |
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How long do you think that foreigner would continue using those words?
Probably that depends on how independent/stubborn the person is.
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Prezbucky
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| #30 (permalink) Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:33 pm Which words won't they quit using? |
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Well, it might depend on a whole host of factors such as the type of job the person is doing, their character and sense of humor and most importantly the level of tolerance of the people that person is dealing with.
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