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 Fri Feb 16, 2007 22:50 pm The United States as a Commonwealth member (or realm) |
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What a question.  |
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Yankee
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| Fri Feb 16, 2007 23:02 pm The United States as a Commonwealth member (or realm) |
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Hi Yankee,
You never know what's going to happen next. Perhaps the United States becomes a Commonwealth Realm with HM Queen Elizabeth II as "Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom, the United States and Her Other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith". Her Majesty is already The Queen of Canada; the inclusion of the United States into Her Majesty's realm would be a piece of cake, don't you think?
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Englishuser
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| Fri Feb 16, 2007 23:07 pm The United States as a Commonwealth member (or realm) |
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probably not
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prezbucky
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| Fri Feb 16, 2007 23:08 pm The United States as a Commonwealth member (or realm) |
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...it's about as likely as the Commonwealth becoming the 51st-70th states (or however many there are).
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prezbucky
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| Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:05 am The United States as a Commonwealth member (or realm) |
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The states fought a bloody revolution to ensure that they would NOT be part of the British Commonwealth. Your question is ridiculous. Why would we even need to or WANT to be part of the commonwealth? So that we can claim allegiance to a family of celebrities that are bred and raised as prize show hogs for tourists to look at?
I think that just the fact that you'd come up with such a question says a lot about you. You have some kind of yearning to be British, and you imagine that other people want to be too. At least that's how your posts make you sound. And your apparent delight in using all the queen's pompous titles makes you sound like some kind of vicarious sychophant, or maybe like someone who reads too many British gossip magazines.
It reminds me of the kid who shot John Lennon. He did everything he could to be as much as possible like John Lennon, but he wasn't John Lennon. He married a Japanese woman, but he still wasn't John Lennon. So he went and shot John Lennon, figuring maybe that would do the trick, but it didn't. He's in prison now, and he's still not John Lennon. |
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Jamie (K)
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| Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:20 am The United States as a Commonwealth member (or realm) |
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Hi,
I believe that Englishuser's suggestion about USA becoming part of the commonwealth is about as ridiculous as the idea of UK becoming the 51st state. I may have overslept this morning but it hasn't happened, has it?
A
PS I do find Englishuser's fulsome admiration for British royalty very sickly but then although I get the point, I do find Jamie's description of British royalty as somewhat offensive.
A
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Alan
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| Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:20 pm The United States as a Commonwealth member (or realm) |
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Hi Jamie,
I knew you'd post a reply!
| Quote: | | Why would we even need to or WANT to be part of the commonwealth? |
The United States would benefit from being united under a strong leader.
| Quote: | | It reminds me of the kid who shot John Lennon. He did everything he could to be as much as possible like John Lennon, but he wasn't John Lennon. |
It is possible to become a naturalised British citizen, just as it's possible to become a naturalised American citizen. HRH Prince Philip, The Duke of Edinburgh, was born Prince Philippos of Greece and Denmark. Today he is a member of the British Royal family, has held a seat in the House of Lords, and is Her Majesty The Queen's consort. Contrary to what you, Jamie, say, it is possible to become British nobility.
| Quote: | | And your apparent delight in using all the queen's pompous titles |
Did you know that Her Majesty also holds the titles of:
Lord of Man
Paramount Chief of Fiji
Queen Elizabeth the Second of Belize
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Englishuser
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| Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:29 pm The United States as a Commonwealth member (or realm) |
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Hi,
| Quote: | | The United States would benefit from being united under a strong leader. |
Pray, who is this strong leader?
A
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Alan
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| Sat Feb 17, 2007 13:19 pm The United States as a Commonwealth member (or realm) |
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Hi,
Do you have a guess?
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Englishuser
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| Sat Feb 17, 2007 13:50 pm The United States as a Commonwealth member (or realm) |
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| Englishuser wrote: | | Quote: | | Why would we even need to or WANT to be part of the commonwealth? |
The United States would benefit from being united under a strong leader. |
Oh, come on! You need your head examined. Even a "strong leader" wouldn't unite the United States. That's the whole point of American society.
And who would be the "strong leader"? Queen Elizabeth, who has no power? And later that big goof Prince Charles? George Washington was offered the position of king, and he wisely rejected it in favor of a temporary presidency.
There would be absolutely no benefit to joining the British Commonwealth (who leads that, anyway? Nobody?) and you sound like some Sicilians I once worked for who were big fans of Mussolini.
Gosh! Maybe if we joined the commonwealth, we could become strong, peaceful, unified, and economically advanced, just like Cameroon!
And I agree with Alan that the whole idea is as silly as the UK becoming the 51st state. Of course, it may have to wait behind Italy, since hopeful rumors were circulating in that country after World War II that it would be made a US state. And a couple years ago quite a few Iraqis I know talked with great enthusiasm about Iraq becoming the 51st state. (After all, its murder rate isn't as high as New York's yet.) |
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Jamie (K)
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| Sat Feb 17, 2007 14:14 pm The United States as a Commonwealth member (or realm) |
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Hi Jamie,
| Quote: | | And who would be the "strong leader"? Queen Elizabeth, who has no power? |
Wikipedia on Her Majesty:
| Quote: | | She is presently the world's only monarch who is simultaneously Head of State of more than one independent nation. In legal theory she is the most powerful head of state in the world |
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom
17 February 2007
| Quote: | | And later that big goof Prince Charles? |
What's wrong with The Prince of Wales, according to you?
| Quote: | | There would be absolutely no benefit to joining the British Commonwealth (who leads that, anyway? Nobody?) |
HM Queen Elizabeth II is Head of Commonwealth; Don McKinnon has been its Secretary General since 1999.
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Englishuser
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| Sat Feb 17, 2007 14:40 pm The United States as a Commonwealth member (or realm) |
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Hi Englishuser,
You are referring to a passage in Wikipedia which describes Queen Elizabeth as "the most powerful head of state in legal theory". Could you please give me any examples that would illustrate how exactly Queen Elizabeth is leading anyone? What does legal theory have to do with reality? How do yo define a 'strong leader'?
As for Prince Charles, Jamie didn't say that there is anything wrong with him. It was you who claimed that it might be possible that Prince Charles could lead the American people in any way. I assume you mean, Prince Charles or Queen Elizabeth could make the headlines of the tabloids like other celebrities?
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Torsten
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| Sat Feb 17, 2007 17:09 pm The United States as a Commonwealth member (or realm) |
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| Alan wrote: | | but then although I get the point, I do find Jamie's description of British royalty as somewhat offensive. |
Yes, that was a very offensive statement I made. But breeding of royalty does look very weird from the outside. They choose marital pairs largely according to their pedigree, raise them under special conditions, with special food, etc., which is more or less what the farmers do with animals they intend to show at the Michigan State Fair. There was a time when a king or queen, at least outwardly, tried to lead a virtuous life and could serve the useful purpose of the educated moral voice and conscience of the nation, but when the current queen dies, I think that time will be over for a while, and then you might as well crown Bill Clinton. I can't figure out what they're for now, other than to show to tourists and provide a sense of nationhood to the British, which is another type of show.
| Englishuser wrote: | | It is possible to become a naturalised British citizen, just as it's possible to become a naturalised American citizen. HRH Prince Philip, The Duke of Edinburgh, was born Prince Philippos of Greece and Denmark. Today he is a member of the British Royal family, has held a seat in the House of Lords, and is Her Majesty The Queen's consort. Contrary to what you, Jamie, say, it is possible to become British nobility. |
Yes, it's quite possible to become British nobility if you're already nobility somewhere else, as you point out. Another way to become nobility in any country, as witnessed by people I know who worked as fashion photographers in Paris, is to get put on the roster of a major modeling agency, let the agency rent you out for high-class parties, shmooze the royalty, and marry one. There are variations on this process, but I think it always involves either marrying someone, or buying a title, which is kind of like getting a sex change operation. You're acknowledge as being the opposite sex, but your chromosomes are still of your former gender.
My favorites are the people who are nobility of countries that have no nobility. Jaqueline Kennedy's sister was called "Princess Lee Radziwill" in the press, because she married a "prince" of Poland when Poland hadn't had any nobility for a long time. It was kind of like being the Queen of Mobile, Alabama, or the Duchess of Cabo Rojo, Puerto Rico. |
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Jamie (K)
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| Sat Feb 17, 2007 18:46 pm The United States as a Commonwealth member (or realm) |
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Hi Torsten,
You asked:
| Quote: | | Could you please give me any examples that would illustrate how exactly Queen Elizabeth is leading anyone? What does legal theory have to do with reality? |
HM Queen Elizabeth II is Head of State of many nations, notably the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. She is the one who appoints the British PM and Governor Generals of many other countries. No law comes into force in the UK, Canada, or Australia without royal assent. Her Majesty is the only one in the UK who can declare war. She is the only one who may dissolve Parliament.
Although The Queen, in practice, follows ministerial advice, she could decide against her government. She has that power. In addition to this, The Queen meets with the PM and other ministers on a regular basis; on these occasions Her Majesty advises members of her government. The Queen also meets many foreign dignitaries including heads of state and diplomats.
| Quote: | | How do yo define a 'strong leader'? |
That would depend on the context. In republics, where a president is elected to serve as head of state, the president rarely represents continuity and neutrality in the way a monarch does. If there are two parties in a country, party A and party B, and the president belongs (or belonged) to party B, then what happens to supporters of party A? |
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Englishuser
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