through vs to; their vs his/her; them vs him/her

[laroche]

Hi,

I read some texts in the oxford dictionary and got confused as to how some replacements/substitutions are made. I am curious if such replacements/substitutions are correct and allowed. Here they are:

1a. Our office is open Monday through Friday (why use through?)

1b. Our office is open Monday to Friday (this is how I feel it should be)

2a. SNOOT: A person who treats other people as if they are not as good or as important as them. (oxford dictionary)

2b. SNOOT: A person who treats other people as if they are not as good or as important as him/her. (this is how I feel it should be)

3a. A person might consider their own opinion as personal. (oxford dictionary)

3b. A person might consider his/her own opinion as personal. (this is how I feel it should be)
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impossible is nothin!

[Mister Micawber]

.
1-- Americans use 'through' to include Friday; Brits consider Friday included when 'to' is used.

2-- 'Them' is en route to (again) becoming the accepted object pronoun for a singular person of unspecified sex; you should expect to see it more often in this situation in future.

3-- As with #2.
.
_________________
Canadian-American native speaker
who teaches English for a living at Mister Micawber's
ESL cafe: Interview with Mr. Micawber

[prezbucky]

Though, of course, "they" and "them" are plural.

Technically, 2B and 3b are correct. A person is a "he/she" or a "him/her", not a "they" or a "them".

One person = he/she or him/her (in journalism school, we were told to pick one -- masculine or feminine -- to avoid the grammatical error of combining a singular subject with a plural pronoun)

People = they or them
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[prezbucky]

Maybe, to remain grammatically correct, we should invent a non-gender singular pronoun, so we don't have to offend anyone by choosing he or she, him or her.
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Conchita]

They: used to avoid saying 'he or she':
"There's someone on the phone for you." "What do they want?"

(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)

Tom, would you really say "What does he or she want" in normal, everyday speech? This would sound funny to me.

[Torsten]

Hi Tom,

I remember having this discussion about using 'they' and 'them' in connection with a singular person of unspecified sex. As a matter of fact, this grammar question might have been the reason why you signed up with our forum last year. Since we don't have a non-gender singular pronoun (yet), I prefer using 'they' instead of 'he/she'. I also agree with Charles, 'they' is/will soon be the accepted pronoun for a singular person of unspecified sex.
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Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary

[Yankee]

[prezbucky]

Conchita

...one could simply go with "he" or "she". As in, "What does he want? I paid my taxes, damn it!"

---

Torsten

This does not mitigate the fact that it is grammatically incorrect. This is one of my crusades, to rid the English-speaking world of the plight in which singular subject and plural pronoun are forced to agree with each other... when they get along rather like six-year-old boys get along with six-year-old girls at a dance.

I hereby introduce to y'all (hehe) the great savior of both our grammar and our gender sensitivities:

Heir

Examples:

Taking the place of their/his/her: The person gave heir things to the poor.

Taking the place of them/him/her: A person who treats other people as if they are not as good or as important as heir.

Taking the place of they/he/she: "Tom, there's someone on the phone for you... what do you think heir wants?"

Now, how do we pronounce this word?

It's got to be "hair" or "air", though I suppose it could also be "here".

I vote for "hair".


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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Ahmadov]

Interestingly, I have never faced this problem of he/she=they before. With Conchita's sentence about telephone, my answer for the second sentence would be "What does he want", assuming that the one calling is a man, or just using "he" as a general pronoun.

Well, then a different question arises: if we do not use "he" as a general pronoun then why do we call God "he", as we know that God is niether male nor female.
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Learning is a sacred engagement.

[prezbucky]

Yep... but using "he" all the time is sexist! I recommend alternating their usage.



As for God, Jesus taught us to pray "Our father..."

If God were a female, he would have started the famous prayer "Our mother..."

There are probably other biblical instances we could reference to explain why God is commonly referred to as "He", but that's one of them. Back in the day, biblical things became custom in Christendom... and "God is a he" is one of them.
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Yankee]

I have a feeling that there might be some strong resistance to changing certain things.
"Our Parent, which art in heaven, ..."

[prezbucky]

[prezbucky]

LOL, Amy

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

In the South: "...don't fix it none."

Seriously, though, let's start using "heir" as the singular pronoun in ambiguous situations.

If we speak it and write it, and encourage others to do so... who knows, the mirrors (Webster's, Oxford, etc.) might list it.

It might take 50 years and billions of advertising dollars, but I think that the cause is worth such trouble.

American Heritage probably never will, but two out of three ain't bad.

I'm deadly serious about this!

Heir who has ears, let heir hear!
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Mister Micawber]

.
You might want to look through some of the links at THIS SITE, Tom. And THIS ONE.

If you don't like any of what you read there, then be comforted in that you are not alone-- googling 'third person singular pronoun' will reveal many like minds trying to legislate their own prescriptive choice for a non-gender-specific 3rd-person-singular personal pronoun set.
.
_________________
Canadian-American native speaker
who teaches English for a living at Mister Micawber's
ESL cafe: Interview with Mr. Micawber