A Palestinian State?

[prezbucky]

I was flipping through some biblical maps the other day and noticed that Israel never really (so it seemed to me, anyway) occupied the Gaza Strip (or simply Gaza).

On one biblical map, the Gaza was said to be occupied by the Phillistines (sp?).

If that is not traditionally Israel -- if it never was part of Israel -- then why not give the Gaza to the Palestinians, to set up a Palestinian state?

What do you folks think of that idea?
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[zubok]

Dear prezbucky,
You are planning to have an Israel state. But my question "Is bible in its original form? Or you people have destorted it to have some imaginary state or to gain something by misguiding message."

Cool down man & think twice before going to any fanatic action.
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Zubok

[NinaZara]

Tom,

#1 I think we can dream on..(not being sarcastic here)
#2 why not share it?(now that is me being sarcastic)

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Zubok,

I might hurt your feelings by saying this, but I think Islam is much much more than proving other faiths wrong.

Think of this, a clever person doesn't need to make other person looked stupid to appear clever.

If muslims want to do da'wah(to preach) muslims can just show the beauty of Islam without insulting other religions.

Islam is not great because you think Christianity is wrong/distorted. Will Islam be any less if Christianity didn't exist?

I really think this method of da'wah is obsolete.

Forgive me if I hurt your feelings,
Nina
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Okotteru Papa mo suki dakedo, nikoniko yasashii Papa ha mo~tto suki!

[Yankee]

Hi Tom

It's often difficult to know what the best solution to any problem is, but problems involving territory or land often seem to be particularly sticky. Following along on your suggestion, what about the US, Canada and Mexico? Should those three countries be handed over to ancestors of the original inhabitants?

Just my two cents...

Amy

[prezbucky]

One of the tough things they'd have to iron out would be Israeli offshore rights off the Gaza Strip coast. That coastline takes up a fair part of the current Israeli coast.

Another would be this:

Would Israel, having "granted" the Palestinians their own state, then use it as an excuse to expel all Palestinians from Israel (...ostensibly into Palestine)? That could become a nightmare on many levels.

As for turning land over to the original inhabitants, probably the first question would be:

Do they want it back for their sole use?

and then:

How much of that land do they need? There are 300,000,000ish people in the USA, maybe about 30 million in Canada, and something like 110 million in Mexico (without checking). After figuring out how many of those people have no Native American lineage (which will be hard to do... and you know some will try to take advantage of it), in the USA at least there'd probably be something like 275,000,000 people left over. Where would they go -- back to their ancestral lands? It would be big business for the airlines, cruise ships and oil industries (lol), but it would suck for the quarter of a billion people.

Because the numbers are of such large scale, I don't think that the comparison -- while okay in principle -- is fair, given the difference in population.

To return all North American people to their ancestral grounds would mean an exodus of several hundred million people.

With Palestine, we're talking low-single-digits-millions. Still a logistical nightmare, but not nearly on the scale that effecting a "return the land to the savages" (lol j/k) would incur.

Of course my personal view is that if the Gaza Strip were recognized as the State of Palestine, that Israel should allow Palestinians who are in Israel to remain in Israel. I say that, hoping that those Palestinians who chose to stay there would behave themselves.
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[prezbucky]

and then... how far back do we go?

Should the Promised Land go only to the descendants of Shem (Semites)?

Or Jacob? (Jacob is Israel)

In Europe, what would the starting point be?

Would people in Spain (Visigoths) and Italy (Ostrogoths) with Gothic lineage be expelled and forced to settle in northern Europe, where their ancestors emigrated from in maybe 200 AD?

And that's assuming that there are any Spaniards or Italians with 100% Gothic bloodlines.

Would the people with Mongol blood be kicked out of Russia and some of the Eastern European states, so that the Magyars could finally have sole right to Hungary... Slavs could take Poland and Russia... etc.?

Where would the Huns go -- back to the Asian steppes?

Where would the Vikings/Norse go, back to Scandinavia? They raided (and settled) everywhere.

Who would be allowed to live in Italy -- Etruscans?

In Ireland... Celts?

In England... Celts, or Saxons and Jutes, or Britons (King Arthur, anyone?)?

Someone stop me if this is wrong:

The original inhabitants of England (having come from the European continent, most notably France) were Celts. Some of them came to be known as Britons (Romanized Celts, I think).

Around 400 AD, the Saxons and Jutes (under Hengest the Saxon, who was really a Jute) attacked and drove many of the Celts into Wales, Scotland (to join the Picts), and Ireland.

There were multiple Viking forays into England and Scotland as well.

Then in 1066, William the Conqueror took his Normans (Danish Vikings who had settled in France under Rollo of Norway or Rolf the Ganger, can't remember which, about 100-150 years previously) to Britannia and took over England.

So let's review:

Celts/Britons-->Saxons/Jutes-->Vikings-->Normans

This could open up an incredibly fascinating discussion, come to think of it.
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Dark magician]

Tom, do you look on your write?

first, you depend on biblical maps and then you spoke about theorem original inhabitants.

why israel government did do on emigrate most jews from europe to palestine between first world war and second?

Hey.... if you want or no palestine's land for all philistines, not just Gaza.

[stew.t.]

Hi

Firstly I think that most solutions for land rights are not easy because of the weight of history and conflict.

The point prezbucky makes is a valid one concerning history and original rights of natives to the land.

Is the land ours to own?
We divide and then argue over a little bit of turf we call home.

To create a Palestinian state would have it?s issues and will not be resolved easily. Especially when there is the heat of debate that is only the tip of the iceberg expressed here.

Dear Dark Magician

You have very strong opinions but you make them harsher with your poor command of English. It does not help the image you are projecting for yourself and your people. The beauty of English as a langauge is like any other, it lies in it?s subtlety, expression and sometimes clarity. Maybe it would be better to invest as much effort in improivng your English as voicing your opinions.

In conclusion this is an issue that will never be resolved easily but this does not mean we should not try or be scared to discuss it.

As for democracy, is it right to label the so called "Western" society as democratic?
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[NinaZara]

Mba,

You sounded angry. But really, what did I say? As far as I'm concerned, all I said was use the beauty of Islam to make people understand this religion of you and me.

Nina
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Okotteru Papa mo suki dakedo, nikoniko yasashii Papa ha mo~tto suki!

[stew.t.]

Nina

I think you were genuine in what you said, and sincerity counts. Interpretation can always be a hard thing to judge. I wouldn?t get overly concerned. How others react to your statements is sometimes with certain individuals outside of you zone of control.
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Please meet Stewart Tunncilff

[prezbucky]

Mba

All I meant by bringing up the biblical map thing was to convey where Israelis did not live in those days. It looks like the Philistines were sea people (like the Phoenicians to the north), and that Philistines lived in what is currently the Gaza Strip.

This is one of those cases in which the idea just popped into my head and I posted it -- could a Palestinian state (autonomous) not help to quell some of the negative Israeli-Palestinian actions/feelings?
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[prezbucky]

[Jan]

[NinaZara]

[*Delta*]

hey,
why don't we all try not to enter the religion issue during our conversations .
i mean everyone has his own idea of Islam
and if someone wanna talk about this religion ( which is my religion BTW ) try to talk with a littel bit of respect
because no Muslim in this page has said any wrong word about any other religion.
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A Life Unfolds .. No One Knows