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usage of phrase "an of the/these/those"



 
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usage of phrase "an of the/these/those" #1 (permalink) Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:21 am   usage of phrase "an of the/these/those"
 

Hi everyone!
i have come across many usages of the phrase "an of the/these/those" in place of the usual "one of the/these/those".
i think that it does make a sense but is this legal and proper according to the ENGLISH LANGUAGE???
please please help me out!!!

i searched in google.com the following (including quotations)
"an of the"
and found the phrase being used in many websites including Weikipedia and some Oxford site too!!!
u urself can search and confirm it!
the usages were like:
an of the most beautiful... (weikipedia)
an of the best managers of... (some business site)
and many many others too!!!
i hope to come to an conclusion soon....!
ZHero
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
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usage of phrase "an of the/these/those" #2 (permalink) Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:05 am   usage of phrase "an of the/these/those"
 

Hi Zhero,

These quotations don't make sense to me. 'An' as indefinite article is used before a noun with a vowel sound. I would say that it could be a mistake for 'and' or there is a word missing such as 'an example of ...'

Alan
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usage of phrase "an of the/these/those" #3 (permalink) Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:28 am   usage of phrase "an of the/these/those"
 

well... that's the way u want to see it to be!
the examples that i have went through don't show any such possibilities!

here are the details (searched in google)...

XXXIII. And if it happens that in either Chamber, an of the managers shall get into such a situation, that he cannot make good what was entrusted to him during his administration, and in consequence thereof any loss shall happen, such Chamber shall be liable for ........
( http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/westind.htm )

An of the advantages of open source is that Linux allows rapid software bug detection and elimination, which is important for correcting security exploits, certainly these days now.
( http://webscriptz.be/2007/03/10/2history/ ) (wikipedia)

From this period dates an Allegory of the elements water and air, made out of a walrus tusk (an of the most beautiful examples of ivory carving)(ca. 1688-1690) and the ivory equestrian statues of Leopold I (1690-1693), Joseph ....
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthias_Steinl)

i hope to have a better reply soon....!
thakns for your concern!!!
ZHero
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 6

usage of phrase "an of the/these/those" #4 (permalink) Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:37 am   usage of phrase "an of the/these/those"
 

ZHero wrote:
well... that's the way u want to see it to be!
the examples that i have went through don't show any such possibilities!

here are the details (searched in google)...

XXXIII. And if it happens that in either Chamber, an of the managers shall get into such a situation, that he cannot make good what was entrusted to him during his administration, and in consequence thereof any loss shall happen, such Chamber shall be liable for ........
( http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/westind.htm )

Hi ZHero,

Why are you a quoting a text that is more than 350 years old? Are you interested in the history of the English language? If so, you should rephrase your question. Also, what do you think of using a spell checker? You might want to read this:
http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic15976.html

ZHero wrote:
An of the advantages of open source is that Linux allows rapid software bug detection and elimination, which is important for correcting security exploits, certainly these days now.
( http://webscriptz.be/2007/03/10/2history/ ) (wikipedia)

This text is not from Wikipedia but from webscriptz.be, a blog that doesn't contain any information as its author.

ZHero wrote:
From this period dates an Allegory of the elements water and air, made out of a walrus tusk (an of the most beautiful examples of ivory carving)(ca. 1688-1690) and the ivory equestrian statues of Leopold I (1690-1693), Joseph ....
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthias_Steinl)

Again, this is a historic text from the 17th century.
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usage of phrase "an of the/these/those" #5 (permalink) Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:44 am   usage of phrase "an of the/these/those"
 

thakns Mr. Torsten!
but does that mean that such phrases were used 350 yrs back and are no more used now a days???
well.. i mean that though the dates written in the articles are old but the article isn't old enopugh!!!
reply...
ZHero
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 6

usage of phrase "an of the/these/those" #6 (permalink) Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:51 am   usage of phrase "an of the/these/those"
 

Hi ZHero,

The fact is that the phrase "an of" does not exist in modern English. You have found only one article where the combination occurs and that text is from 1621 (Charter of the Dutch West India Company).

Regards,
Torsten
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usage of phrase "an of the/these/those" #7 (permalink) Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:58 am   usage of phrase "an of the/these/those"
 

Hi Zhero,

Sorry you didn't like my reply. Have a look at this written in the 14th century. Languages change you know:

Quote:
In Southwark at the Tabard as I lay
Redy to wenden on my pilgrymage
To Canterbury with ful devout corage,
At nyght was come into that hostelrye
Wel nyne and twenty in a compaignye
Of sundry folk, by aventure yfalle
In felaweshipe, and pilgrims were they alle,
That toward Canterbury wolden ryde."

Alan
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usage of phrase "an of the/these/those" #8 (permalink) Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:28 am   usage of phrase "an of the/these/those"
 

i really thakn you Torsten for your concern and appreciate your knowledge and looking deep down the matters!!
well.. here are some examples of "an of these" and "an of those"...

some people tell me that it should have been "any of these/those" istead of "an of these/those" so i have been very particular about the selection of these articles!
please have a look at them and send your views!

However, these agents are approved as a substitute anticoagulant in patients with heparin induced thrombocytopenia (HIT) and PCI. Currently an of these agents are being developed for surgical and interventional use.
( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12812377&dopt=Abstract )

We worked through an of those issues and "then before signing the deal, 8WP
indicated we had to deal first with CN on the lease site.
( http://www.reviewcta-examenltc.gc.ca/submissions-soumissions/Txt/Village%20of%20Stenen.txt )
ZHero
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 6

usage of phrase "an of the/these/those" #9 (permalink) Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:45 am   usage of phrase "an of the/these/those"
 

Hi ZHero,

As Alan has said before "an of these/those" does not exist in English. In both of your examples the authors made a mistake -- the second text was written by a native Canadian (an indigenous Canadian) whose mother tongue is probably Saskatchewan not English.
The point is this: If you write or say "an of those" you show that you don't speak proper English. This means, you are either an uneducated native speaker of English who might actually be illiterate of you are an ESL speaker who is struggling to understand the basics of English grammar. Either way, I'd prefer to speak like an educated and successful person. What about you?

Regards,
Torsten
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usage of phrase "an of the/these/those" #10 (permalink) Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:54 am   usage of phrase "an of the/these/those"
 

thanks a lot Torsten!!
that was a really satifying answer!
i too would love to speak like a native speaker only!
i just came across such a doubt cause "learning is by observation"!
i observed something and have now learned too!!!
hearty thanks and regards!!!
impressive work!!!
ZHero
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 6

usage of phrase "an of the/these/those" #11 (permalink) Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:28 pm   usage of phrase "an of the/these/those"
 

Hi Hero

In my opinion, both of your last examples are clearly typos or errors. Just as Torsten and Alan have said, I'd say that any examples of 'an of the' that you might find are simply examples of one of the following: typos, mistakes made by non-native speakers, 'an' is part of some other word, 'an' is an abbreviation, etc.

To prove that point, look at the very first line in the medical text:
Anticoagulants and antithrombotic drugs have played a key role in the prophylaxis, treatment and surgica/interventional management of thrombotic and cardiovascular disorders. The word 'surgica' does not exist. I'm sure they meant to write 'surgical'. That's a typo. They accidentally omitted the letter 'L'.

In the sentence (from the same article) that you quoted, there is also a problem with the grammar:
Currently an of these agents are being developed ...
If the author was referring to one thing (an anticoagulant? an antidote?), then he used 'are' incorrectly. He should have used 'is'.

Amy
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usage of phrase "an of the/these/those" #12 (permalink) Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:32 pm   usage of phrase "an of the/these/those"
 

HATS OFF for you Yankee!!!
good job!!!
i'll definitely take care of this thing!!!
well done!
ZHero
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 6

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