If you were raped and got pregnant, how would you feel?

[Jamie (K)]

The fact that you live in Ireland doesn't disqualify you from discussing teen pregnancy. You're jumping to conclusions again in a typically teenage way. It does, however, make you somewhat less than qualified to talk about sex education in the US.

I think that the reports of your one friend in "Sin City" about the content of one abstinence sex education program are probably less than reliable, and that the person was probably "out to lunch" or was jumping to conclusions in much the way you do, because I've never seen an abstinence educator who denied that contraception can prevent pregnancy. On the other hand, the effectiveness rate of a diaphragm, for example, is only 40% to 50% in real-world use, the way women REALLY use them, not the way they're SUPPOSED to use them. It's the same thing with the pill and with IUDs, although the percentages vary. If a carefully controlled study found that some medicine was 99% effective under very strictly governed conditions, but in actual use it turned out to work only half the time, would you call that medicine effective? Would a car that started only 50% of the time under real climate conditions be considered reliable? Most sex education programs exaggerate the effectiveness of contraception and of condoms.

You seem to think that abstinence education programs don't give information about contraception, sexually transmitted diseases and other risks, but they do, and much more realistically than the other type of sex education usually does. And they tend to use the real-world statistics, rather than the laboratory statistics. So they do all those things. What the abstinence people do, that the other sex educators don't, is add the psychological and emotional damage caused by promiscuity; the medical and psychological consequences of abortion; and other issues that do not fit the agenda of the typical sex educator.

Typical sex educators teach the belief that you can go ahead and have sex if you do X, Y and Z to "reduce the risk of [fill in the blank]." The abstinence educators teach the same thing, but more realistically, showing that the risk isn't worth it at all, and that for the person who actually gets pregnant or actually gets the disease, the risk is 100%, no matter what precautions they took. The conclusion, then, is that it's not worth it to take even a reduced risk and that it should all be postponed for faithful marriage. The sex education establishment thinks this is fantasy, but people abstained in the old days, and they can be taught to abstain now.

The most laughable thing that non-abstinence and anti-abstinence sex educators do is to tell kids to be conscientious and "limit their number of sexual partners". What the heck does THAT mean? How many is a reasonable limit for preventing diseases?

If sex education doesn't have much of a role in causing teen pregnancies or the spread of STD's, then what difference does it make WHAT kind is administered, and why is it even an issue?

[Ralf]

[Jamie (K)]

[polycarp58]

The problem is in what our societies are teaching. I don’t mean that a girl isn’t being taught the way to “take care of herself” (an old idiom meaning how to avoid pregnancy and disease) One of the things I learned early in biology was each and every ancestor each of us have, had genitalia that worked, and if you use it, it will work. If one has sex out of wedlock, there is a good chance a baby will be the result; with or without “protection.” Too many people have no regard for other people. A baby is not your possession, but is a helpless person who has been born into a world that is not fair, and has little justice. “FAIR!” fairness and justice first belongs to the baby. The baby deserves to be protected, it is the innocent. As a baby’s mother or father, one has the responsibility to provide as much protection and security and as good an environment as possible. Sex between two kids or adults does not involve just the two people. It is irresponsible even in a society that doesn’t say so. I don’t think abuse of the two or the resultant child is right, but we have responsibility to others and particularly to those who are dependant.

When we get to the question posed by this thread (about rape), first and foremost the first consideration, what ever the choice that is made, should be in light of the baby’s welfare. Secondly, the girl or woman is a victim not a criminal.

Any culture or family system that does not put infants’ and children’s rights before everyone else, even if that means that someone must give up their freedom, their selfishness, that culture is sick.

[polycarp58]

The problem is in what our societies are teaching. I don’t mean that a girl isn’t being taught the way to “take care of herself” (an old idiom meaning how to avoid pregnancy and disease) One of the things I learned early in biology was each and every ancestor each of us have, had genitalia that worked, and if you use it, it will work. If one has sex out of wedlock, there is a good chance a baby will be the result; with or without “protection.” Too many people have no regard for other people. A baby is not your possession, but is a helpless person who has been born into a world that is not fair, and has little justice. “FAIR!” fairness and justice first belongs to the baby. The baby deserves to be protected, it is the innocent. As a baby’s mother or father, one has the responsibility to provide as much protection and security and as good an environment as possible. Sex between two kids or adults does not involve just the two people. It is irresponsible even in a society that doesn’t say so. I don’t think abuse of the two or the resultant child is right, but we have responsibility to others and particularly to those who are dependant.

When we get to the question posed by this thread (about rape), first and foremost the first consideration, what ever the choice that is made, should be in light of the baby’s welfare. Secondly, the girl or woman is victims not criminals. Any culture or family system that does not put infants’ and children’s rights before everyone else, even if that means that someone must give up their freedom, their selfishness, that culture is sick.

[Ahmadov]

Hello Torsten,

I guess this is not a question for male users
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[Torsten]

Hi Zahir,

As far as I can see Ralf and Jamie are male users and they have contributed to this discussion which covers quite a number of different aspects. Even a male user can try to put himself into the shoes of a woman who has been abused. Maybe this helps prevent such things from happening in the future.
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[Ahmadov]

Please, don't laught at me, but I always thought Jamie was a female user...
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Learning is a sacred engagement.

[Jamie (K)]

[Ahmadov]

[Torsten]

Zahir,

If you read Jamie's posts carefully you will clearly see that he is a male user.
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[Nicholas]

I've been sure that Jamie is a good teacher/man.
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Nicholas