Can you learn English in chatrooms?

[Torsten]

Hi,

I've been observing how English learners are communicating in chatrooms and I wonder what value this type of exchange has. Looking at the language being used in chatrooms I wonder if chatting has any value at all. I could imagine that chatrooms could be quite an effective tool to learn English provided there were a sufficient number of trainers or coaches available who point out mistakes. Maybe I'm wrong but from what I've seen in those chatrooms, almost every single phrase or sentence contains numerous mistakes.
What do you think?

Regards,
Torsten
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Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary

[Yankee]

Which chatrooms have you been observing, Torsten?

I think that in something such as a chatroom, not even the most experienced ESL trainer could possibly correct every error or even almost all of them -- particularly in a chatroom full of beginner or intermediate level learners. It would probably only be possible to correct the "biggest" errors. I imagine the more chatters and the more prolific the writers, the more errors would have to go uncorrected.

The practice in writing is certainly not bad, but uncorrected errors also tend to become bad habits that are very hard to break later. So, as you say, there are pluses and minuses...

[Torsten]

Hi Amy,

Thanks for your response. I was referring to TheChatPage.com. From a technical point of view it's the best chatroom for ESL speakers I have seen so far as it has some excellent features, a very pleasant layout and design and it's easy to navigate. It's also very well blended into it's parent site, Englishforums.

So, I agree that such communities have great potential if the right system is in place. For example, there could be regular training sessions with a coach leading the discussions and pointing out errors. There could even be a software tool that filters out such common mistakes like "u" instead of "you", "r" instead of "are", etc.
What do you think?

Regards,
Torsten
_________________
Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary

[Yankee]

I agree that 'u' and 'r' are terrible things for learners of English to be using on a regular basis, but I'm a bit reluctant to categorize them unequivocally as errors since that sort of "texting" spelling is actually in use. But it is dangerous for people who want to use their English professionally or formally or even normally. Worse, that sort of "spelling" can easily look just plain stupid.

I'd say that to make the most of such chats, there ought to be an ESL trainer involved who does immediate error correction on the worst errors. The text of the entire chat could be saved and trainers could address smaller errors and alternative ways of saying things later.

I do not trust software to be able to do much (if any) of this at all. Just look at what grammar and spell checkers miss:

Eye halve a spelling checker (MS WORD suggests "Eyes" as the only correction for this line.)
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques for my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it to say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
It's rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
Eye am shore your pleased two no
It's letter perfect awl the weigh
My checker tolled me sew.

Source

Other than informing me that the first word of each line should NOT be capitalized, the only other suggestion that MS Word made for the text above was in the second to last line: It recommended its instead of it's.
Meanwhile, I sure am curious about what it looks like when "eyes halve".

[Torsten]

Hi Amy,

I agree with everything you are saying here and I especially like your idea of saving the text of the conversation for further analysis and training. This form of immediate interaction with a trainer or coach is valuable addition to communicating on a forum. So, on top of 'asynchronous communication', learners would also be offered the chance to communicate 'in real time'. I think that in a few years time there will be websites that offer 24/7 'chat' training services to anyone who either wants to 'talk' to an English coach or needs instant help and assistance with documents, presentations, emails, etc.
_________________
Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary

[Englishuser]

Hi,

I am sure you can learn a language just by taking part in chatroom conversations, but most learners clearly need other kinds of input as well.

"Useful" chatroom conversations taking place between ESL/EFL students are, as both of you have pointed out, quite problematic to arrange. What I think is very good for learners of English to do is to make friends with native speakers that they could talk to online using a form of more or less standard English. Ideally, you could have voice conversations as well.

Chats between English learners and one or more trainers is also a good way of practising your English. Perhaps this is something we could do here at English-test.net?

Englishuser

[Yankee]

What about Skype? I've only used that one-to-one so far. Have you (or anyone) tested the conference call function for ESL training?

[stew.t.]

Hi Yankee

The beauty of skype is you can have a conference call, and open a text window as "chat". This allows for dual purpose correction of text by oral instruction from a trainer.

The question here is what is the function of chat and what is the benefit to a qualified trainer? If a trainer is simply socialising in this way then fine. Should there be a financial benefit for the services provided by the trainer?

If we can not control the standard of spelling (we all I am sure have made some slips) on forums then how can we do this effectively in real time chat? Just take a look at this forum, spelling mistakes occur and some members could benefit from mentoring or something similiar.

What method should the trainer use for correction?
Immediate correction has proved to have a minimal uptake in lessons. If you are up-to-date as a trainer you should be aware of present research.
Real time chat correction of accuracy would interrupt fluency but also have no real success to the learning curve of a selection of students. So why bother?
Or is there another option?
sykpe instruction is the only real solution I see that exists at the moment.
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Please meet Stewart Tunncilff

[lost_soul]

[Yankee]

Hi Stew

Thanks for the input on Skype. Am I correct in assuming that all people involved in such a conference call must "speak in turn"?

I agree with you about massive "real time" error correction destroying the flow of conversation (whether written or verbal). And that is definitely a reason not to even attempt what is probably impossible anyway (correcting all errors in "real time"). However, it being a conversation, there are reasons other than learning for real time correction of some errors -- such as simple understanding.

I don't think there is any language acquisition research (recent or not) that has ever suggested that any type of one-time correction of an error guarantees that the correct version will be learned and/or that the mistake will not be made again.

Amy

[Yankee]

Hi LS

So, can you rewrite the poem with the correct spelling?

Amy

[stew.t.]

Hi

Yes you should take turns to speak, but can speak over each other using skype.

As for research in correction of mistakes, mainly orally, there is some research.

I will track my notes down, you would be a little suprised. It was presented to me by Penny Ur in Berlin last year and was an eye opener.
_________________
Please meet Stewart Tunncilff

[Yankee]

Hi Stew

Are you saying that Penny Ur had examples of research actually stating that one-time corrections do the trick? I guess I must have missed that.

Regarding Skype: That's pretty much what I expected based on my one-to-one experience. Thanks.

Amy

[lost_soul]