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 #2 (permalink) Fri May 11, 2007 19:24 pm Shakespeare |
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Hi Torsten,
As you probably know, I'm a big fan of Bill Shakespeare. I came to him late because he was forced down my throat at school and it took me a long time to recover but now I am a devotee of the first order. His works survived many obstacles over the centuries - the French classical theatre shunned him because he flouted the tenets of Greek drama, the Victorians (in the UK) tried to sanitize his writing in the shape of the good Dr Bowdler and in my early youth it was fashionable to declaim his work as if the actors were chanting something sacred from a religious work. Nowadays - thank goodness -there are many theatre directors who promote the real Shakespeare and we have in the UK a host of fine actors and directors who perform not only here in the UK but in many countries throughout the world.
To come to the point you make - anything which promotes Shakespeare has my vote. I say good luck to the rappers!
Alan
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Alan
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| #3 (permalink) Fri May 11, 2007 19:37 pm How well do you know Shakespeare? |
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Bill to the Sizzle in da hizzee
Yo, yo, uh, uh
Yo I'm gonna compare thee to a summer's day
You're hotter and more temperate, biatch.
Why. Ask. Why?
The word is "Wherefore", biatch, but it means why...
I die! I die! Cried Gloucester with no eyes.
And there ain't no hospital, neither.
Will...will.will.will wuh-william Shakespeare.
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hehe
(I'm covering Vanilla Ice's back, so nobody thinks -- ever again -- that he had the worst rhymes ever.)
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Prezbucky
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| #4 (permalink) Sat May 19, 2007 3:50 am How well do you know Shakespeare? |
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| I know almost nothing of Shakespeare, even though I had to read several of his plays in high school. His language is now so archaic that we need a good deal of it translated. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #5 (permalink) Sat May 19, 2007 7:59 am How well do you know Shakespeare? |
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Hi Jamie,
Surely you can understand Shakespeare?
EU |
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Englishuser
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| #6 (permalink) Sat May 19, 2007 11:46 am How well do you know Shakespeare? |
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| I understand about 60%. His language is very archaic, and so it is not easily understood by native English speakers today. In fact, if I read a German, Czech, French or Spanish novel, I understand more than I do when I read a Shakespeare play. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #7 (permalink) Sat May 19, 2007 12:14 pm How well do you know Shakespeare? |
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Hi Jamie,
It would be interesting to know if other native speakers on our forum feel the way you do about Shakespeare. I take this opportunity to ask you something about your foreign language skills. In another thread you said that you had taught yourself some languages including Swedish and Russian. How fluent are you in these two languages?
EU |
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Englishuser
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| #8 (permalink) Sat May 19, 2007 12:16 pm How well do you know Shakespeare? |
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| I have lost a lot of my fluency in Swedish, and I never reached very high active proficiency in Russian. I understand them passively much better than I can use them actively. My other languages are much better. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #9 (permalink) Sat May 19, 2007 12:23 pm How well do you know Shakespeare? |
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Hi Jamie,
Do you normally speak Spanish with Spanish speakers, German with German speakers, etc., or do you speak English with non-native English speakers even though you are proficient in their mother tongue?
EU |
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Englishuser
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| #10 (permalink) Sat May 19, 2007 12:40 pm How well do you know Shakespeare? |
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| Englishuser wrote: |
| Do you normally speak Spanish with Spanish speakers, German with German speakers, etc., or do you speak English with non-native English speakers even though you are proficient in their mother tongue? |
It depends on the person and the situation, but as a matter of general principle, non-native speakers don't allow native speakers of English to practice other languages on them. If the English speaker is abroad, the people insist on speaking English because they seldom get the opportunity. If the English speaker is in his own country, foreigners who are visiting insist on English because they came to the country to improve their English. No matter what the situation, they find a reason why English should be spoken and not their language. If the English speaker tells them he wants to speak their language, most of them disregard his request, because they think it's less important for someone to learn their language than it is for them to learn English. I've been told that in Sweden, where most people speak English, it's almost impossible for an English speaker to learn Swedish well.
The answer is to find people who can't speak any English. One of the reasons I can speak Czech is that my friends found me an apartment in the home of a family who spoke no English. Right now most of my Spanish speaking practice comes with the help of a waitress who has been in the US for two years but speaks almost no English. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #11 (permalink) Sat May 19, 2007 12:50 pm How well do you know Shakespeare? |
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Hi Jamie,
I think you are correct about non-native speakers of English being reluctant to speak their own language with native English speakers. I have also noted, however, and I speak from experience, that some native speakers of English seem to be thinking it's each and every one's duty to speak English and consequentially don't bother to learn the local language even if they live in a non-English-speaking country.
EU |
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Englishuser
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| #12 (permalink) Sat May 19, 2007 13:18 pm How well do you know Shakespeare? |
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Yes, it's true that many English speakers don't learn local languages when they live abroad. Sometimes it's from an arrogant belief that everyone should speak English, and sometimes it's because they are lazy and parasitic. In some cases it's because they feel more comfort and "control" in their own language, and so if the people around them know English, why bother learning the other language?
Keep in mind that it's not only English speakers. I have had the displeasure of trying to communicate with several people from Poland who had lived in the US for 30 years and never bothered to learn English. I have to deal with some Arabs who don't really make an effort to learn any English, because it would require mixing with the infidel, so they just stay in their neighborhood. There are many Italians in New York who can't speak English after many years there.
This is not the case with me, however, and I more often have the problem that the foreigners won't let me speak their languages. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #13 (permalink) Sat May 19, 2007 14:51 pm How well do you know Shakespeare? |
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| Englishuser wrote: |
Hi Jamie,
I think you are correct about non-native speakers of English being reluctant to speak their own language with native English speakers. I have also noted, however, and I speak from experience, that some native speakers of English seem to be thinking it's each and every one's duty to speak English and consequentially don't bother to learn the local language even if they live in a non-English-speaking country.
EU |
I disagree with your feeling that native speakers of English feel that it is everyone else's "duty" to speak English. I'd say that Americans would definitely think this way about foreigners who reside in the US. And I heartily agree with that. However, many Americans have little or no real contact with foreign languages. Foreign languages are elective subjects at school, but that doesn't make them "real". Foreign languages are perceived as just theoretical things, so many Americans have little concept of the "reality" of a foreign language.
As for Americans who actually visit countries in which English is not the native language, I think those who don't take the time to learn at least a little bit of the local language are just plain impolite and/or ignorant. On the other hand, English-speaking business people who frequently have to visit many different foreign countries on business are generally very aware that English is not only widely learned and spoken, but is also the "official common language" in the companies they visit. So, they may rightfully expect it their business partners' duty to have a good command of English. |
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Yankee
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| #14 (permalink) Sat May 19, 2007 15:15 pm How well do you know Shakespeare? |
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Hi Amy,
| Quote: |
| As for Americans who actually visit countries in which English is not the native language, I think those who don't take the time to learn at least a little bit of the local language are just plain impolite and/or ignorant. |
I was thinking about exactly this kind of people. I have heard many Americans say they are "English speakers only" although they live in a non-English-speaking country. Of course, the common language of a company may be English, but if these Americans intend to interact with local people who don't work for the same company then they should learn at least the survival bit of the local language, in my opinion.
EU |
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Englishuser
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| #15 (permalink) Sat May 19, 2007 15:22 pm How well do you know Shakespeare? |
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EU,
How many languages do you speak or understand? |
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 Pamela
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