Clean in the US, but dirty everywhere else

[aleaf]

OKAY
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Try to change youself before you try to change others.

[Jamie (K)]

Aleaf, under the Kuomintang Taiwan evolved into a democracy with human rights, rule of law and economic prosperity. Most people in China don't have any of these, even now. The Kuomintang does not run Taiwan now because they instituted a democracy in which the ruling party steps down and becomes the opposition party until it may get a majority of the vote again someday. That's what I told you is called "orderly transfer of power", which has never existed in mainland China.

The ruling families of the Kuomintang were very rich, but Mao was richer, because he was basically the owner of the entire country, no matter how he gift wrapped the situation Marxist rhetoric. When 20 million people were starving under his genocidal agricultural and economic plan (some estimates say it was 30 million, but let's use the low estimate), Mao and his inner circle suffered no deprivation and in fact lived a very luxurious life. Likewise, he did not suffer during the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, which could not have happened without his knowledge and lack of intervention, if not direct support. So the top families in the Kuomintang were no different from Mao in regard to living in fabulous wealth while ordinary Chinese people suffered.

Your Korea analogy about a fire in the next apartment is faulty. Basically, what happened was that there was a fire in the next apartment, and China not only helped start the fire but continued to pour gasoline on it. If my next door neighbor starts a fire in my apartment, the local firefighters will come and put the fire out. But if my neighbor has lots of people who continue pouring gasoline on the fire, the fire is liable to get so big that the local firefighters can't put it out, and help has to be called in from across town. In Korea, China helped ignite the fire, due to its imperialist ambitions (all communist powers are imperialist), and it poured on so much gasoline that the legitimate government of Korea had to call the Americans to help them put it out. If China had succeeded in taking all of Korea, they would have tried to take Japan also, just as they tried to take Vietnam and the countries surrounding it.

You said that the Rape of Nanking does not appear in Japanese history books. However, I believe that the recent controversy on that involved one particular history book, and not ALL books. Japan's media are not ideologically censored as they are in China, and a quick search of Amazon.com's Japanese affiliate shows that books on the Rape of Nanking are readily available there.

You also seem to assume that my readings on China were filtered by my government, but they weren't. My initial reading on Chinese history and politics happened when I was a teenager, and at that time a lot of the material was favorable to Mao and communism, or at least not critical of it. Part of the reason is that the authors were leftist, and another part of it is that China controlled historians abroad by preventing them access to the country if they were too critical of the Chinese communist party. So what I read was very uncritical. And here's another bomb to drop on you: Much of what I read came directly from Chinese publishing houses! The US doesn't censor history books, so there were many stores that sold books produced in the PRC and containing exactly what Mao's government wanted us to think.

The problem is that if you read enough of that propaganda from the PRC, a lot of things start not to make sense, and then you have to start reading things from other sides. Because I have read information from both sides, it's pretty clear to me that you have been fed almost entirely the official communist party line on everything.

[aleaf]

You said that the Rape of Nanking does not appear in Japanese history books. However, I believe that the recent controversy on that involved one particular history book, and not ALL books. Japan's media are not ideologically censored as they are in China, and a quick search of Amazon.com's Japanese affiliate shows that books on the Rape of Nanking are readily available there.

So why the government don't addmit the history? do most Japnese really realize the history? If a government cann't lead their people to a correct direct, is it a responsible government?

My initial reading on Chinese history and politics

I won't deny it. but even the same history or political event will get a totally different explaination when people take the different stand and when they hold different values and world outlook. All books are written by people.

the legitimate government of Korea had to call the Americans to help them

Just the same as Jiang Jieshi asked the USA to help elimiate chinese socialist. but they lost both of the war. most of chinese believed that Chinese National Party was very corrupted and the running dog of the USA at that time.Itwas the reason why the national party had to retreated to Taiwan. And nowadays they lost the power there. Again and again the party retreated in defeat.(Please investigate whether you americans were popular by koreans i mean those commom people at that time.)

The democracy in Taiwan is terrible. Haven't you noticed that some leaders of Tiawan fight each other in the Legislative Council just like clowns? We don't envy their democracy at all.Moderate democracy is democracy and extrem democrasy is disaster/ chaos.

When 20 million people were starving under his genocidal agricultural and economic plan (some estimates say it was 30 million, but let's use the low estimate), Mao and his inner circle suffered no deprivation and in fact lived a very luxurious life.

Have you seen it yourself?

Mao Zedong has never been a rich man. and his daughters are leading a very average life here.

When those 20-30 million were starving, where were you foreign charity? Just like what you are doing to Iran , south korea and cuba, you refused to help those countries when they refused to accept your political requirements. In order to force people accept the so-called democracy, you would rather they led a miserable life.Why don't allow countries of different social system to have the equal chance to develop? If local people accept it and don't mind to "stand it", why should you mind?

According to the intricate history and nationalites here, I believe that no any other party can do a better job than Chinese communism Party compared to any rulers ever here in chinese history.Anyway many old people told me that.

what i have said above ddin't mean i i didn't hope the improvement in China. We just hope to improve in our own pace based on the situation of China. Any extreme change will be a disaster to china.
_________________
Try to change youself before you try to change others.

[Jamie (K)]

[aleaf]

[color=blue]As far as I know, the Japanese government does admit that they did damage to other countries. However, the official communist Chinese version of the story may be distorted and it's possible that no free country will ever support all of it.[/color]

What has japan done? have the Japanese done the same good as Germans? If the government had done good enough, textbooks of theirs about what they have done to Asian won't be so ridiculous. How many japanese really know what their government has done to Asian ? why there are so many clamouring japanese right-wings? Why in their Yasukuni Shrine so many criminals who killed so many people are still being prayed? japanese should consider the feelings of victims instead of taking excuse such as japanese cullture as an excuse.

running dog almost=flunky.

Basically, according to people who were close to him and dealt with him every day, Mao lived the same kind of rich, decadent lifestyle that any totalitarian dictator lives.

Sorry i don't believe it. Another founder of china Zou enlai,do you know him? When he died the secretary of UN at that time Waldheim ever had a comment on him. And when he departed away all members of UN at that time flew flags at half-mast to express the respect to him. iDo you know it?(i don't have the english version or i will post here.) If Mao had been really like what they criticized, Zou wouldn't have assisted him the whole life.They had been commarade the whole life and made great contribution to china together.As saying goes:"Birds of a feather flock together."

Many people become fat when they get old. Take me for example, i eat not so much but i am still fat.

In the first place, I don't know why you include South Korea

south->north
BTW i don't like the present North korea as well, especially their present leader.I heard that he had many women.

Your bringing up Iran in this is ridiculous. Iran is sitting on top of enough oil to make their whole nation rich.What will they

when they use up their oil resources?

Cuba trades with the entire world, other than the United States.

I mean before. haven't you applied economic sanctions to them?
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