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 Wed May 30, 2007 8:31 am What mistake bugs you the most in your language? |
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Hi prezbucky,
No offence taken.
All the best
EU |
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Englishuser
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| Wed May 30, 2007 9:01 am What mistake bugs you the most in your language? |
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Hi,
What's wrong with 'natives'? It's more comical than offensive to me.
A
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Alan
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| Wed May 30, 2007 9:44 am What mistake bugs you the most in your language? |
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Speaking of AmE and BrE, I noticed that I can easily understand what an American guy wrote, but it takes me a hell of a lot of trouble to catch on what a Brit guy is trying to say.... Somehow I find American style of writting easier.
I put it down to the fact that American English has been coined by people of many nationalities (mine too), so my ancestors took care of the "understandability" of this language.
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lost_soul
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| Wed May 30, 2007 9:52 am What mistake bugs you the most in your language? |
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Hi Lost_Soul,
How many "American guys" have you been communicating with? What type of "guys" are they? What is their educational background and where did they write the text you had no trouble understanding? Also, is "Brit guy" American writing style?
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Torsten
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| Wed May 30, 2007 21:19 pm What mistake bugs you the most in your language? |
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EU
Cool. Alan alluded to it earlier -- I used "natives" as a whimsical (attempt at whimsy, anyway) reference to the Brits I'd encounter in the pubs.
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prezbucky
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| Thu May 31, 2007 1:40 am What mistake bugs you the most in your language? |
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| lost_soul wrote: | Speaking of AmE and BrE, I noticed that I can easily understand what an American guy wrote, but it takes me a hell of a lot of trouble to catch on what a Brit guy is trying to say.... Somehow I find American style of writting easier.
I put it down to the fact that American English has been coined by people of many nationalities (mine too), so my ancestors took care of the "understandability" of this language. |
I honestly can't see that there's that much difference between British and American styles of writing. Both countries have clear writers and unclear writers, but at any particular point in history, the writing styles are very similar. I think the French write similarly. In Western Europe and North America, simplicity and clarity are usually esteemed higher than complexity. The best British and American writers explain even complex things clearly.
Now, Indian English is another matter!  |
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Jamie (K)
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| Thu May 31, 2007 19:26 pm What mistake bugs you the most in your language? |
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Hi Alan,
| Quote: | | What's wrong with 'natives'? It's more comical than offensive to me. |
As you pointed out, the idea is to try to maintain accuracy on everyhting on the site. Many who read prezbucky's posts are doing so in order to improve their English prior to taking the TOEFL or an IELTS test. Knowing about different registers of a language is good, however, most who take an exam of this kind do need to learn how to write in a formal way. Writing 'natives' in prezbucky's sense would most likely be frowned upon by a TOEFL or IELTS examiner.
All the best
EU |
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Englishuser
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| Thu May 31, 2007 19:58 pm What mistake bugs you the most in your language? |
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I doubt that.
A
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Alan
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| Thu May 31, 2007 20:10 pm What mistake bugs you the most in your language? |
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Besides, EU, Przezbucky's use of the word "native" in that case was not so silly as to be slang or nonstandard. After all, most of the people in the UK are British natives, just as most in Germany are German natives. We talk about California natives, Alaska natives, natives of Wales, of Ireland, of almost anyplace. There's nothing odd about this, and it doesn't evoke the image of them all wearing grass skirts and bones in their noses (except, maybe, in some London nightclubs, but that's a different issue). It just means the people were born there. The usage will never make someone fail a standardized English test.
If anything they see here would make them fail such a test, it would be wrong use of titles, such as your fastidious habit of writing "Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth" or "His Excellency Lord Mayor Boozebreather of Dismalville". This is wholly inappropriate usage in ordinary writing, but you persist in it. |
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Jamie (K)
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| Thu May 31, 2007 21:00 pm What mistake bugs you the most in your language? |
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Hi,
How do you feel about the below sentence?
| Quote: | | In many countries, the natives do not wear their national costumes. |
| Quote: | | The usage will never make someone fail a standardized English test. |
Who is talking about failing a test?
| Quote: | | If anything they see here would make them fail such a test, it would be wrong use of titles, such as your fastidious habit of writing "Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth" or "His Excellency Lord Mayor Boozebreather of Dismalville". This is wholly inappropriate usage in ordinary writing, but you persist in it. |
Do you really think it is inappropriate to refer to HM Queen Elizabeth II the way I sometimes do?
All the best
EU |
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Englishuser
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| Thu May 31, 2007 21:35 pm What mistake bugs you the most in your language? |
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| Englishuser wrote: | | How do you feel about the below sentence? |
The sentence below.
| Englishuser wrote: | | Quote: | | In many countries, the natives do not wear their national costumes. |
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That means that in Austria, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Thailand, China, etc., the people who were born there don't wear their national costumes.
| Englishuser wrote: | | Quote: | | If anything they see here would make them fail such a test, it would be wrong use of titles, such as your fastidious habit of writing "Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth" or "His Excellency Lord Mayor Boozebreather of Dismalville". This is wholly inappropriate usage in ordinary writing, but you persist in it. |
Do you really think it is inappropriate to refer to HM Queen Elizabeth II the way I sometimes do? |
Yes. Use of grandiose titles in ordinary speaking or writing is very often quite a serious cultural mistake in English-speaking countries. It's especially embarrassing when people do it with the names of royalty from a country that they don't come from. |
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Jamie (K)
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| Thu May 31, 2007 21:41 pm What mistake bugs you the most in your language? |
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When I read something like "HM Queen Elizabeth II" I think of the ship that has a similar title.
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Torsten
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| Thu May 31, 2007 21:41 pm What mistake bugs you the most in your language? |
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Hi Jamie,
| Quote: | Englishuser wrote:
Quote:
In many countries, the natives do not wear their national costumes.
That means that in Austria, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Thailand, China, etc., the people who were born there don't wear their national costumes. |
You wouldn't say that 'natives' sounds somewhat old-fashioned and offensive in that sentence?
| Quote: | | Yes. Use of grandiose titles in ordinary speaking or writing is very often quite a serious cultural mistake in English-speaking countries. It's especially embarrassing when people do it with the names of royalty from a country that they don't come from. |
I think it is all right to use the proper title of a sovereign no matter from what country you are. Just because you are from the US, it doesn't mean you couldn't be referring to HM The Queen of Tuvalu, for instance. In some contexts it would be perfectly appropriate for you to do that.
All the best
EU |
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Englishuser
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| Thu May 31, 2007 21:47 pm What mistake bugs you the most in your language? |
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| Englishuser wrote: | | Quote: | Englishuser wrote:
Quote:
In many countries, the natives do not wear their national costumes.
That means that in Austria, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Thailand, China, etc., the people who were born there don't wear their national costumes. |
You wouldn't say that 'natives' sounds somewhat old-fashioned and offensive in that sentence? |
No.
| Englishuser wrote: | | Quote: | | Yes. Use of grandiose titles in ordinary speaking or writing is very often quite a serious cultural mistake in English-speaking countries. It's especially embarrassing when people do it with the names of royalty from a country that they don't come from. |
I think it is all right to use the proper title of a Sovereign no matter from what country you are. Just because you are from the US, it doesn't mean you couldn't be referring to HM The Queen of Tuvalu, for instance. In some contexts it would be perfectly appropriate for you to do that. |
And for that reason you're prone to making embarrassing cultural errors in English. Just because a person likes to do it and is indulging a personal fetish for royalty, that doesn't make it any less improper.
Also, you improperly capitalized the word "sovereign". It's not to be capitalized when used generically. |
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Jamie (K)
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