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Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22'



 
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ESL Forums | English Vocabulary, Grammar and Idioms
Use of submit | What does Neanderthal logic means?
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Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22' Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:43 am  Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22'		  
Hi,

Could you help me with:

Quote:
"Justice?" The colonel was astounded. "What is justice?"
"Justice, sir-"
"That's not what justice is," the colonel jeered, and began pounding the table again with his big fat hand. "That's what Karl Marx is. I'll tell you what justice is. Justice is a knee in the gut from the floor on the chin at night sneaky with a knife brought up down on the magazine of a battleship sandbagged underhanded in the dark without a word of warning. Garroting, That's what justice is when we've all got to be tough enough and rough enough to fight Billy Petrolle. From the hip. Get it?"
 

1. What does the 1st underlined part really mean? Could you shed some light on it?

2. What to do from the hip? What does the 2nd one really mean?

Quote:
Major Major had three strikes on him from the beginning his mother, his father and Henry Fonda, to whom he bore a sickly resemblance almost from the moment of his birth

3. Does it mean 'imprints' or something?

Quote:
At three o'clock in the morning he found his solution, and Major Major and the other recruits were again shaken roughly awake and ordered to assemble barefoot in the drizzly glare at the administration tent, where the sergeant was already waiting, his fists clenched on his hips cockily, so eager to speak that he could hardly wait for them to arrive.

4. What does 'in the drizzly glare' mean?

Thank you!

Haihao
Haihao
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Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1380
Location: Japan
Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22' Thu Jun 07, 2007 17:32 pm  Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22'		  
Hi Haihao(genki?)

I think in number 3, "strikes" has something to do with unlucky things that have happened to somebody.

And number 4, maybe, just maybe, "drizzly glare" refers to "not so much sunlight". It is 3 o'clock in the morning. No matter where, I bet there will never be scorching sunlight at 3 in the morning.

And sorry, I can only understand the underlined sentence in number 1 and 2 halfway.

Nina

PS As always, love your questions. They wake up my sleepy eyes all the time.(Oyasumi! It's 0:27 as I'm writing this. I'm leaving for Tokyo tomorrow, maybe I'll check the new complex you told me before. BTW, I'm going to see the movie POTC 4, have you seen it?)
_________________
"Suara rakyat suara keramat." -Anwar Ibrahim.
NinaZara
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Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22' Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:22 am  Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22'		  
Hi Nina,

Glad to see you again. I'm genki. How about you?

I feel your answers are quite right. They gave much insight as well. I am now trying to take a catch of 'Catch-22', a famous 1960's American novel. Welcome to Tokyo! Smile Actually I haven't seen POTC 4 yet. My time is all given to 'Catch-22' these days. Sad

Talk to you later.

Haihao
Haihao
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Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1380
Location: Japan
Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22' Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:29 am  Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22'		  
Haihao wrote:
Quote:
"Justice?" The colonel was astounded. "What is justice?"
"Justice, sir-"
"That's not what justice is," the colonel jeered, and began pounding the table again with his big fat hand. "That's what Karl Marx is. I'll tell you what justice is. Justice is a knee in the gut from the floor on the chin at night sneaky with a knife brought up down on the magazine of a battleship sandbagged underhanded in the dark without a word of warning. Garroting, That's what justice is when we've all got to be tough enough and rough enough to fight Billy Petrolle. From the hip. Get it?"
 

Haihao, please check that long underlined part again. I have a feeling you mistyped or mispunctuated something, because I understand the general idea, but something is wrong with it.

Haihao wrote:
2. What to do from the hip? What does the 2nd one really mean?

A cowboy or any person who "shoots from the hip" shoots quickly without thinking or aiming. It's just a quick reaction, usually with bad consequences. Sometimes when someone is quick to say nasty things that hurt people, and never thinks before saying them, we say the person "shoots from the lip". It's a pun on "shoot from the hip."

Haihao wrote:
Quote:
Major Major had three strikes on him from the beginning his mother, his father and Henry Fonda, to whom he bore a sickly resemblance almost from the moment of his birth

3. Does it mean 'imprints' or something?

BASEBALL, Haihao! BASEBALL! You keep forgetting BASEBALL!

"STRIKE THREE! Yoooooooou're OUT!"

Haihao wrote:
4. What does 'in the drizzly glare' mean?

It is drizzling outside, and it's probably a bit dark. Light is being reflected off the water droplets in the air and creating glare.
Jamie (K)
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22' Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:53 am  Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22'		  
Thank you so much again, Jamie! I am now so released from these interesting but difficult sentences with your help! It's really beneficial.

It's so shameful keeping forgetting baseball as a citizen of a baseball-player-output nation. Smile

I checked up the long sentence again but it was what I had quoted before. Let me quote it again and make a suggestion. Could you be with me once more and help me out?

Quote:
Justice is a knee in the gut from the floor on the chin at night sneaky with a knife brought up down on the magazine of a battleship sandbagged underhanded in the dark without a word of warning.

1. Is it possible that it was a humor of the author to deliberately let the poorly-educated speaker make such a statement?

2. Could I make a try to reword it into: Justice is like a knee hidden in the gutter suddenly setting off from the floor striking on the chin at night sneakily with a knife brought up from the magazine of a battleship down at the bottom. The chin was thus sandbagged underhandedly in the dark without a word of warning.? Oh, it's still so weird! Sad

Thank you again!

Haihao
Haihao
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1380
Location: Japan
Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22' Fri Jun 08, 2007 14:33 pm  Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22'		  
I have to go to work now, but your first problem is that you have mistaken the word "gut" (meaning belly) for the word "gutter". It sounds like two people are fighting on the floor, and one kicks the other in the stomach with his knee.

Somehow, the guy gets hit in the chin from down there too.

To "sandbag" means to make someone think that you can't or won't attack him, and then attacking him. Or it can mean pretending that you aren't skilled enough to win a contest, and then very easily winning it.
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22' Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:28 am  Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22'		  
Hi Jamie,

Thanks again. I think I am gradually catching up with this Catch-22 with your help! Smile Let me give a try again to rewrite it this way:

Justice is like a knee with which one kicks the other in the stomach and on the chin from the floor at night sneakily along with a knife which is brought up from the magazine of a battleship down below thus the stomach and the chin are attacked severely or unjustly underhand in the dark without a word of warning.

Does it make a little more sense?

Thank you!

Haihao
Haihao
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1380
Location: Japan
Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22' Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:35 am  Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22'		  
Yes, that makes more sense than the original sentence.
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22' Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:41 am  Some descriptions from the novel 'Catch-22'		  
Thank you so very much!
Haihao
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1380
Location: Japan
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