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 Wed Jun 13, 2007 22:05 pm The Political Compass |
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jamie
thanks for noting the mistake. i knew that but it went unnoticed. lol
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prezbucky
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| Wed Jun 13, 2007 22:07 pm The Political Compass |
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Michael
The stock market helps keep people in jobs and helps to create others.
When people invest in the stock market, that's (in effect) what they're doing.
That money is (if the corporation is competent) used to improve the corporation.
You invest --> The company has more money --> The company can afford to pay its employees (or at least enjoy increased capacity to do so) --> people keep their jobs and, maybe, jobs are created --> If the company does a decent job, you get a return on your investment.
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prezbucky
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Fan of Arabian horses
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| Wed Jun 13, 2007 22:24 pm The Political Compass |
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what happens when nobody decides to go into business because there isn't enough of an incentive to do so?
Are socialists going to start and run businesses? HA!
If the business environment goes downhill:
- Fewer people will go into business
- Competition will falter
- Product quality will decrease
- Investment opportunities will falter
- Trade will falter because the products suck
The key to helping the most people is to keep businesses free (with some regulation to protect the consumers & investors, of course) -- free to be successful, free to create jobs, free to compete and produce better products at lower prices (increase value for the consumer).
Socialism should be severely limited -- you help the person who cannot help himself (injured, disabled, etc.), or the person who was recently laid off through no fault of his own. But if people just want to be lazy and draw from others' hard work.. that's the aspect with which I have a serious problem.
We should leave businesses (and people) relatively free to create jobs, investment opportunities, and quality products.
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prezbucky
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| Wed Jun 13, 2007 22:26 pm The Political Compass |
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Hi prezbucky,
You said:
| Quote: | | We should leave businesses (and people) relatively free to create jobs, investment opportunities, and quality products. |
Why can't we just be happy with what we have got?
All the best
EU |
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Englishuser
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| Wed Jun 13, 2007 22:28 pm The Political Compass |
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Thank goodness the cavemen didn't think like that!
We'd be walking around barefoot (you'd be walking around in mud, given your location), eating cold fish (having caught them with our hands) and living to an average age of 30.
hehe
j/k dude
On a way more serious note:
We should be happy for what we have. We have a holiday here in the US (not sure if it's the same in England) called Thanksgiving -- one of our biggest holidays -- which is set aside for the purpose of giving thanks. But when we can improve things (you know, without messing up other things), why shouldn't we?
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prezbucky
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| Wed Jun 13, 2007 22:28 pm The Political Compass |
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Sorry Tom, I disagree strongly! Recently, many people in Germany lost their jobs as a matter of profit for stock owners and company leaders.
My boss ( the big cheese of the company I?m working for) himself admitted recently that he just makes money because he was watching the stock market since a couple of years and he now is able to detect some fortunes immediately.
Leftist  MIchael
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| Wed Jun 13, 2007 22:32 pm The Political Compass |
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sure, you can use the stock market for gain. I said that investing in a company gives that company increased CAPACITY (ability) to pay its employees. Whether or not a company decides to do that is up to the company/labor unions (etc.).
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prezbucky
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| Wed Jun 13, 2007 22:33 pm The Political Compass |
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Hate business all you want, but ask yourself this:
Where would we be without entrepreneurs?
The USSR.
And they starved.
(you're a cool dude.. don't take anything personally. there's nothing wrong with arguing, per se.)
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prezbucky
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| Wed Jun 13, 2007 22:41 pm The Political Compass |
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Hi prezbucky,
Humankind needs to develop new technologies, that's for sure. Is our primary goal in life really to make money, though?
All the best
EU |
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Englishuser
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| Wed Jun 13, 2007 22:46 pm The Political Compass |
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| prezbucky wrote: | The stock market helps keep people in jobs and helps to create others.
When people invest in the stock market, that's (in effect) what they're doing.
That money is (if the corporation is competent) used to improve the corporation.
You invest --> The company has more money --> The company can afford to pay its employees (or at least enjoy increased capacity to do so) --> people keep their jobs and, maybe, jobs are created --> If the company does a decent job, you get a return on your investment. |
Floating of new shares in a company allows that company to finance new ventures, which generally create new jobs, not only within their own company, but in other companies and industries as well.
Holding dividend-paying stocks allows old people to receive monthly or quarterly income. This can support them sufficiently without the government having to steal money from struggling workers in order to give them a decent pension. When my parents were first married and had very little extra money, my mother began buying stock with pocket change she'd saved up. She let the dividends automatically reinvest, and by the time she and my father were old, they were not dependent on the government or on their children for their support or healthcare. If people did not do this, most governments' pension systems would collapse.
Insurance companies keep a portfolio of growth and dividend stocks so that they can assist policy holders after a catastrophe and still keep people's insurance premiums reasonable. This prevents people from being homeless after a tornado or a flood.
Most employee pension funds use the stock market to increase the amount of money they can pay out to pensioners.
If you take $2,000 and put it in a good, diversified stock fund at the time a baby is born, he will have enough when he grows up to pay for his university expenses, or he can keep it until he retires and he won't have to depend on the taxpayers for his support. |
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Jamie (K)
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| Wed Jun 13, 2007 22:55 pm The Political Compass |
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| Englishuser wrote: | Hi prezbucky,
Humankind needs to develop new technologies, that's for sure. Is our primary goal in life really to make money, though?
All the best
EU |
If money can motivate people to do good things (impossible to always do good, but we want a batting average of around .750 at least. hehe), then yes, I think so.
Whenever you give people freedom to make and handle money, you're hoping that they will provide opportunities or improvements for others (jobs, good investment opportunities, good products, etc.). There are some who will take advantage of this, so we need regulations.
Maybe the fine line is figuring out how much regulation we need -- ideally it will be enough to protect investors/labor/consumers, but not enough to dissuade would-be entrepreneurs and investors from putting their commercial ideas into action.
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prezbucky
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| Wed Jun 13, 2007 22:57 pm The Political Compass |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: | | prezbucky wrote: | The stock market helps keep people in jobs and helps to create others.
When people invest in the stock market, that's (in effect) what they're doing.
That money is (if the corporation is competent) used to improve the corporation.
You invest --> The company has more money --> The company can afford to pay its employees (or at least enjoy increased capacity to do so) --> people keep their jobs and, maybe, jobs are created --> If the company does a decent job, you get a return on your investment. |
Floating of new shares in a company allows that company to finance new ventures, which generally create new jobs, not only within their own company, but in other companies and industries as well.
Holding dividend-paying stocks allows old people to receive monthly or quarterly income. This can support them sufficiently without the government having to steal money from struggling workers in order to give them a decent pension. When my parents were first married and had very little extra money, my mother began buying stock with pocket change she'd saved up. She let the dividends automatically reinvest, and by the time she and my father were old, they were not dependent on the government or on their children for their support or healthcare. If people did not do this, most governments' pension systems would collapse.
Insurance companies keep a portfolio of growth and dividend stocks so that they can assist policy holders after a catastrophe and still keep people's insurance premiums reasonable. This prevents people from being homeless after a tornado or a flood.
Most employee pension funds use the stock market to increase the amount of money they can pay out to pensioners.
If you take $2,000 and put it in a good, diversified stock fund at the time a baby is born, he will have enough when he grows up to pay for his university expenses, or he can keep it until he retires and he won't have to depend on the taxpayers for his support. |
word
I want a fixed annuity... at about 8%, compounded daily. Do ya think anyone will offer that?
hehe
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prezbucky
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| Wed Jun 13, 2007 23:00 pm The Political Compass |
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| Englishuser wrote: | Hi prezbucky,
Humankind needs to develop new technologies, that's for sure. Is our primary goal in life really to make money, though? |
It's been shown time and again that new technologies are not developed or implemented well unless the people doing so have some self-interest at stake.
Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Ford and Gates, among many others, made their fortunes not by robbing people, but by making their products cheap enough for everyone to use, thus improving the general well-being of ordinary people, and creating millions of jobs. In the case of Henry Ford, his invention even improved public health by reducing the horse urine and manure lying around the streets, and resulted in cheaper groceries, so that people could afford to eat more healthily. Rockefeller not only made his products cheap enough for people to afford, but he also improved their reliability and safety, thus sparing people from countless deaths and injuries.
And no antibiotic or cure for a major illness has been developed in Third World countries that don't have a surplus and where people are happy with what they have. Those medicines, among many other innovations -- all developed with a profit motive -- are gifts from the rich, decadent countries to the poor countries, and have improved people's general health and life expectancy in those places. No heavily socialist country can match capitalism's achievements in that regard. |
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Jamie (K)
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| A blog for higher studies | NationStates |
At least, you?re a high priest of libertarian and socialism. It seems E.U. is the next god. Congratulation E.U. 