Funny but respectable

[Prezbucky]

I like it when immigrants actually act like they want to be here.

When someone comes to this country and continues waving the flag of their homeland, that sort of mildly bothers me -- if you like your old country so much, why not go back there? You're in America now. Act like an American, get on our team, etc. We're happy you're here. Now get on the bus.

This is not a huge deal to me.. it is a minor peeve. All the same, I'd appreciate it if the country that offers these people a home, a job, etc... were appreciated itself.

You wanted to come here. You've made it here. You've arrived in a place that offers the possibility of almost unlimited prosperity. So start waving our flag, please.
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Yankee]

Hi Tom

My experience in Germany tells me that Germans are just the same. The Germans I know are not hostile towards foreigners who live in Germany, but Germans do often criticize foreign residents who don't learn German and keep only to themselves in groups from the same foreign country. And I think such criticism is justified and understandable. I would expect the natives of any country to think the same way: Why would someone choose to immigrate to my country only to reject and/or ignore my country's language, customs and people?

As far as wanting to keep a few familiar things around you, I really don't see how learning the language and accepting local customs would prevent you from doing that. It should be obvious that when you move to a foreign country at least some things will be different, and any of the "old country" traditions that you want to keep might have to be adapted. Heck, I managed to celebrate an American-style Thanksgiving in Germany every year. I prepared a "traditional" Thanksgiving dinner, but I usually couldn't do it on Thanksgiving Day since that is not a holiday in Germany and I usually had to work. I always had trouble finding some of the necessary ingredients for the Thanksgiving dinner -- especially a turkey larger than 4 or 5 pounds, so some years I just made "twin baby turkeys". I often had to make cranberry sauce from scratch and pumpkin pie had to start with a whole pumpkin. :shock: But I almost always celebrated Thanksgiving with my German friends -- not with Americans. That was my way of keeping a tradition I love AND sharing my culture with my German friends -- not rejecting German culture and forcing American culture down their throats (although the turkey dinner naturally did go down their throats). :) Interestingly, though, after I'd been in Germany for a number of years, my "traditional" Thanksgiving dinner changed a bit: I starting preparing "Rotkraut" with it every year. Why? Because Rotkraut seemed to fit the meal quite nicely and many of my German friends like it. And I discovered that I do, too.

By the way, I was also always blissfully thankful that I didn't have to put up with American football games on TV all day. 8)
.
_________________
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln

[Torsten]

[Yankee]

Hi Torsten

The very first settlers here arrived in communities that spoke a common language. To assimilate into some other community, learning the language of the other community is fundamental. I think people sometimes don't perceive any benefits in trying to assimilate, even though the benefits are real. To me, assimilation does not mean throwing away your identity and beliefs; it means learning and adapting.

As an native speaker of English, I could have survived in Germany without speaking much or any German. But even in a country like Germany, where so many people are interested in practicing their English with a native speaker of English, not knowing German would have kept me apart from and caused me difficulties with all kinds of things. I certainly would have had to rely regularly on someone who could speak both languages. But how many people have their own private interpreter at their beck and call 24/7?

After I moved into my first house in Germany, I discovered that one of the apartments in the three-family house next door was regularly rented out to US soldiers or Defense Department personnel. Every two years or so, I got a new set of American neighbors. Of course, I met all of them -- just as I met my German neighbors. My American neighbors were people who didn't live on the army base, but rather "on the economy" (as they called it). What I didn't know at first, but eventually found out, was that each time the apartment next door was rented to an American, one of the selling points was along the lines of this: "There is an American living next door (i.e. me) who speaks German and you can always count on her for help with anything you have to do in German." In essence, the message was "You don't have to worry about the fact that you can't speak German."

Now, don't get me wrong -- I was always glad to help whenever I could. But, the fact of the matter is that my non-German speaking neighbors needed help regularly when they needed to do something directly in German society -- even though there are quite a few Germans who speak English.

As I mentioned earlier, the American government makes it easy for DOD personnel in Germany to live there without learning German. There are lots of other Americans on base. They work in an English-speaking environment. There are American supermarkets on base. There are schools on base. American television is available. Most of their day-to-day needs are taken care of in English. They usually do not see any need to assimilate into Germany society or learn more than a few words of German. They basically live in American communities inside Germany. This does cause them to have some difficulties, though, and this separation also creates some incredible misconceptions about Germany despite the fact that they live there.

I remember one of my American neighbors telling me once that Americans were no longer allowed to visit a tourist area called Titisee. I asked her why the army had banned DOD personnel from visiting there. When she told me that it was Germany, not the US, that had banned all Americans from visiting there, I simply couldn't believe her. But she steadfastly contended that Americans had been banned by Germany from setting foot in Titisee. My German friends were just as disbelieving as I was.

Months later I found out what had actually happened: The DOD had simply stopped organizing bus tours to Titisee and the people on base had understood this as a ban. To me, this is a perfect example of what can happen when two societies are separated by language and how a rumor -- even a ridiculous rumor -- circulating in a small (minority) society can be perceived to be the hostility of the larger (majority) society.
_________________
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln

[Jamie (K)]

[Yankee]

[Jamie (K)]

[Jamie (K)]

Oh, and Yankee, almost all serial murderers are men, so it wouldn't make any sense to talk about a hypothetical serial killer as "she", would it? I would certainly never be offended if you referred to a serial killer as "he", and for the same reasons it makes no sense for you to be offended by my referring to an ESL teacher as "she".

[Yankee]

[Prezbucky]

Were any of the teachers born in the 1990s?

(sorry, hehe)

Okay, class, write this down:

My BFF Jill has been SNF 2 me l8ly.
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Yankee]

.
Leave it to Tom to come up with a modern approach to dictation. :lol:
.
_________________
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln

[Prezbucky]

hey, i'm just a messenger who loves anecdotes. hehe
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Bruce]

Greetings everybody,

I would like to throw in my ten dollars worth of experience.
My experience with language learning is that survival is the main
motivation to learn anything, especially language and the impact
of an experience (hopefully positively traumatic) when learning a
word or a sentence will make the imprint for the memory and use.
It works wonders when you are hungry or looking for a job or trying
to chat up a potential girl/boyfriend etc. etc.
That means trying to fulfill basic survival needs as per Abraham Maslows,
Hierarchy of Needs pyramid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

My success in learning German came from the fact that in the beginning
I just jumped in the deep water and swam catching as many fish (words
and sentences) as possible along the way. The point was I needed them
desparately to survive. With each new understanding and successful use
it strengthend my motivation to learn more and more.
You will laugh your socks off at some of my mistakes of course, but for
me being self-conscious about what I was doing was out of the question.
If I made a mistake I could laugh too which impacted my learning.
I took it all seriously and used every opportunity from newspaper reading,
crosswords, car radio, evening news on TV, socialising, girlfriends, going to
the cinema (very often) and looking up every new word in my dictionary.
The point is I just lived it and breathed it.
I just decided I was going to be German just like an actor in the movies or on the theatre stage.
I think you have to learn a language like putting on a new suit of clothes and wearing it.
That means leaving your culture behind and immersing yourself like a fish in water in the new culture.
Of course I am talking about learning a language when living in the same country.
There have been many interesting phases in the learning process.
For me the German language was not at all easily understandable, sometimes I just had to rebel,
but I slowly but surely understood "how these people think" and most of all "why".
Then it became easier as I understood the mentally and cultural background.
Then I got to understand and like the people and could "empathise" with their way of life.
I thought German was a language like "Newspeak" in George Orwells book 1984.
It was so bloody rational and intellectual and not at all practical, so I thought.
Sometimes it was painful - no pain, no gain (just a joke).
But, one thing is for sure although I?m pretty much like a native speaker I have never lost contact with my own internal culture. And I don?t intend to either.
Sometimes, I have to mentally shake off the culture or rebel, especially when I get angry at some bad mannered people, but that?s great because that?s what keeps me fresh and alive and reminds me of who I am.
Getting back to that lady who started to learn English at 60. I would guess she has suddenly come to the realisation that if she doesn?t start learning she will have nobody with whom she can speak because everybody else has either died off, learned English already or simply moved on, and she will soon be a very lonely person. Hence the motivation.
True motivation breeds fire and passion.
Of course learning a language in an evening class for instance also provides it own motivation through social contact and keeping up with your contemporaries.
I could write more but I hope that was OK for now.
You will all now be wondering why I wanted to live in Germany at all in the first place.

Until the next round,
best wishes, Bruce.
_________________
Free English Tests