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Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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 #258 (permalink) Tue Apr 15, 2008 18:10 pm Errors in the tests |
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http://www.english-test.net/esl/learn/english/grammar/ar008/esl-test.php#two
| Quote: |
correct sentence:
The cubicle over there is free at the moment if you'd like to try on those clothes to see if they fit.
Correct entry: cubicle
The error was: (a) cabin
You have found the error but your entry is incorrect.
your sentence:
The fitting room over there is free at the moment if you'd like to try on those clothes to see if they fit. |
"... your entry is incorrect."
In a nutshell, the problem is this:
My entry is NOT incorrect. "Fitting room" is correct.
The expression "dressing room" would also be correct in AmE.
The "correct" entry sounds incorrect to me. |
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Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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| #259 (permalink) Wed Apr 16, 2008 14:22 pm Errors in the tests |
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Hi Amy,
What is more important to you: helping people learn American English or finding 'errors'? Whenever we ask you to create a test that we can use on our site, you refuse to do so explaining that fixing errors is more important than creating fresh materials. Is helping our users learn the differences between American and British English really your priority? If so, what methods have you tried to achieve your goal? What prevents you from creating American English tests for the users of this site? There are hundreds of tests on our site that were written by Americans. Why not add a few more? This could be a very effective way of helping ESL speakers learn correct English faster.
_________________
Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary |
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Torsten
Learning Coach
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 10059
Location: EU
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| #260 (permalink) Thu Apr 17, 2008 16:59 pm Errors in the tests |
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| Torsten wrote: |
Hi Amy,
What is more important to you: helping people learn American English or finding 'errors'? |
The wording of that question seems to be designed only to mislead, so my answer is this: Neither. I would like to see the tests that are currently on this site improved so that they don't mislead, misinform or confuse learners. In addition, I have already answered thousands of questions and am still doing so. Do you see some sort of problem with that?
It seems that typos in the tests can be identified and fixed with relatively little resistance. However, if a question about usage comes up, the resistance to any sort of change can be massive. For example, it is my sincere belief that Alan actually understands my point about about the "head vs brain" test question. However, it is also my belief that Alan is simply pretending that he doesn't understand. I tried to suggest a simple fix right from the beginning, but that has apparently been rejected.
What about the test question that uses "some time" rather than "sometime"? Do you suppose that leaving that typo in the test will help learners? As far as I know, the use of "sometime" is standard in that context in both BE and AmE. Alan certainly hasn't posted anything to the contrary. So why the resistance to and delay in fixing that particular error?
The discussion about the use of the past perfect and 'by the time' was a fiasco. I expressed my opinion about the test sentence, but there was no follow-up discussion on Alan's part as to why he would suggest that 'by the time' could be used to mean 'after'. Again, it is my belief that he knows perfectly well that all of the points I made were valid, but rather than discuss or explain his point of view, he chose instead to make sarcastic remarks. Do you think that helps learners? Is it your expectation that members of your forum should simply accept that?
| Torsten wrote: |
| Whenever we ask you to create a test that we can use on our site, |
Who is "we"?
| Torsten wrote: |
| you refuse to do so explaining that fixing errors is more important than creating fresh materials. |
No, that is very definitely not what I've said. And that's is part of the problem, Torsten. Too often you either don't listen or won't listen to what I say. You then proceed to put words in my mouth because you either didn't or wouldn't listen.
| Torsten wrote: |
| Is helping our users learn the differences between American and British English really your priority? |
No, that is your own misinterpretation. You also created a write-up about me without even asking me whether it was accurate or not. While I think the idea of doing write-ups was well-intentioned, I do think your complete lack of communication with me (about a write-up about me!) is symptomatic of how erroneous information ends up being posted on this site in the first place. Not discussing things prior to posting can lead and has led to errors.
| Torsten wrote: |
| If so, what methods have you tried to achieve your goal? |
As I said, that is not my goal. I don't know why that should be so hard to understand. I am a native speaker of an extremely widely used version of English. Thus, if a difference between AmE and BE comes up, I think it is completely appropriate to let learners know that I am not a speaker of British English. Should I hide that fact instead? What will a learner take from that? It is my experience that many will be confused and will assume that one of the opinions must be "wrong". So why shouldn't I mention what I think is the main reason for seemingly contradictory responses to questions? What the devil is wrong with that?
| Torsten wrote: |
| What prevents you from creating American English tests for the users of this site? |
As I've consistently stated, it is not my goal to simply create English tests that are specifically "American". And it is certainly not my intent to add to the tests here. I see your current "test-creation" system as flawed in a few fundamental ways. Sorry, but that is my opinion. I have chosen instead to try to get errors in the existing tests fixed.
| Torsten wrote: |
| There are hundreds of tests on our site that were written by Americans. Why not add a few more? This could be a very effective way of helping ESL speakers learn correct English faster. |
Very recently I told you quite clearly that I wouldn't even begin to consider writing tests for this site without a significant change in the way they are created and posted. Clearly, there is not enough teamwork. (Is there really any at all?) There seems to be little or no exchange of ideas prior to posting the tests. There seems to be too little editing prior to posting. There is apparently no mechanism in place that could help to ensure that a test is not misleading or confusing when there is a significant difference in usage (between BE and AmE, for example). I think it is entirely appropriate for me to talk about American English. I am American and I have years of ESL experience. I cannot change the fact that I was not born and raised in England or Ireland or Australia or some other place where English is spoken as a native language. I did not invent the term "American English", and I am not the only one who uses that term. My use of the expression "American English" does not mean that I think all of the tests should be categorized as a particular "brand" of English. On the contrary, it seems logical to me to let a learner know that the main reason for a difference of opinion on usage is simply a difference between different "versions" of English.
To be honest, your questions and comments seem to suggest that my more than 5000 posts in your forums is not enough for you. Have you forgotten that you don't pay me anything for my help here, Torsten?
To make matters worse, you now seem to be on a there-are-no-differences-whatsoever-between-American-and-British-English rampage. That is how I interpret your responses lately. |
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Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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| #262 (permalink) Sat May 03, 2008 11:28 am Errors in the tests |
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Thank you.
_________________
English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story Briefly |
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Alan
Co-founder
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 9205
Location: UK
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| #263 (permalink) Sat May 03, 2008 19:30 pm Errors in the tests |
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You're welcome.
Can I take your 'thank you' to mean those remaining three will be repaired sometime this month?
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Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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| #266 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 13:36 pm Errors in the tests |
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| Quote: |
Fri Nov 18, 2005
brilliant site! happy to be here. |
_________________
English as a Foreign Language
You can read my EFL story Words, words, words... |
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Alan
Co-founder
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 9205
Location: UK
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| #267 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 13:49 pm Errors in the tests |
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Alan, why can't we just fix the tests?
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Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's |
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Mister Micawber
Language Coach
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 7436
Location: Yokohama, Japan
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| #268 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 14:07 pm Errors in the tests |
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Amy & Charles,
The tests have been changed.
Slava |
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Slava
Programmer and Co-founder
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 294
Location: EU
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| #269 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 16:42 pm Errors in the tests |
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Hi Slava
I understood MM's post simply as a response to Alan's defensive post. I'm sure that, like me, MM is aware of the fact that some of the tests have been fixed.
However, the fact remains that it is sometimes difficult to get the tests fixed, and what's worse, input from other experts is too often simply dismissed by defensive authors.
I also still believe that there ought to be a "behind the scenes" forum for discussing errors in and/or differences of opinion about the tests. Ideally, such discussions would take place prior to publishing the tests online. However, there could also be discussions about the existing tests in such a "behind the scenes forum". It seems to me that discussing a change or repair for a test in a forum that is not public might reduce the automatic defensiveness that often appears.
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Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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| #270 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 17:10 pm Errors in the tests |
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Hi Amy,
And yes, I am responding to a post addressed to Slava but I'm sure he won't mind and I feel that the regular references to me in your posts justifies my intrusion.
You speak and behave as if this was your site. It isn't. What exactly is your purpose in repeatedly saying what should be done and what should not be done on the site? Your frequent sly comments about the co-founders in particular I find very irritating. If you are so against the way this site is conducted, why do you keep coming back? As I have suggested before if you are so attached to the site and your daily appearance would indicate that, write some material of your own for the site instead of lurking around under a 'hidden' device so that no one knows you are on line and then suddenly appearing with a great flourish so that no one can miss your arrival, sometimes as a child's drawing of a schoolteacher on a lurid green background, then as a cat on a keyboard (and furthermore as I understand, a cat that is no more) and now as a large red apple. How can that be taken seriously?
Alan
_________________
English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story A funny thing happened... |
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Alan
Co-founder
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 9205
Location: UK
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| Are you going to publish new materials (stories and articles?) | Two easy questions |
