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Errors in the tests


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errors in the tests #76 (permalink) Thu Sep 06, 2007 23:50 pm   errors in the tests
 

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I think the context should be changed from wearing apparel to something else in this sentence-- it is unnecessarily confusing. Even a native speaker would hesitate before calling a hat or a dress 'old hat'. Please see:
http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic19896.html
.
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errors in the tests #77 (permalink) Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:39 am   errors in the tests
 

That, Charles is the whole point - as it means old fashioned or out of fashion, I as a native speaker did not hesitate to refer it back to an item of clothing.

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reposted #78 (permalink) Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:13 am   reposted
 

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My last post was lost somehow, so I'm trying to repost my comments now. I hope MM will also repost his lost comments.

I think I understand your point, Alan, but I agree with Charles here. The idiomatic meaning of 'old hat' can be used to describe many things, but it is generally not used to describe hats or clothing. That would be a bit too literal for this idiomatic expression. The usage examples in the BNC support this.
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errors in the tests #79 (permalink) Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:22 am   errors in the tests
 

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Yes, it seems that my post was lost too-- I can't imagine where.

I said that referring an idiom back to its source tends to regress it back to its literal meaning, and the idiom loses its power. To give a new set of examples:

The goose led the fox on a wild goose chase.
The pig in its sty is in hog heaven.
Your fedora is old hat.


Native speakers would do this only as a rather silly verbal joke, and what is an ESL/EFL student to make of them? This is not testing the idiom at all.

In the case under discussion, it left the student floundering upon a minor grammatical anomaly:

Quote:
It is old hat. I don't get it, isn't supposed to be AN OLD HAT ? I mean to put an as an article ?

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errors in the tests #80 (permalink) Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:36 am   errors in the tests
 

Hi, MM

I liked/ enjoyed your previous examples more: Laughing

Quote:
1- He crashed in the Sahara desert and found himself in hot spot.
2- The ____________ is up to some monkey business.
3- ___________ is an odd fish.


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errors in the tests #81 (permalink) Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:42 am   errors in the tests
 

Hi Tom,

For your information and to defend myself as seems to be becoming more and more the case nowadays, when I wrote the test, it was not as Charles is suggesting that the particular sentence was 'a rather silly verbal joke' but rather intended as a legitimate use of 'old hat' to mean oldfashioned and thus perfectly acceptable when describing what you are wearing. I have been told that I do have a sense of humour but 'rather silly is not how most people describe it.

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errors in the tests #82 (permalink) Mon Sep 10, 2007 16:06 pm   errors in the tests
 

Hi guys

I do not think you need to defend yourself Alan, but the clarity in the correction or criticism of your expression is pretty accurate.

If we see it from a learners point of view, this play with words albeit intended to refer back to the origin could be misleading.

The notion of "old hat" as in old fashioned could be better explained.

We as native speakers and trainers should always consider it from the learners point of view, put ourselves in their shoes.

Weighted explanations can be misleading and we should take the advice of others.

Often in the classroom I will find when I have to come up with a explanation on the spot it may not be the best. As happened today when I tried to explain `aim` with amongst other explanations "What you would like to reach, in business, at the end of a project. The students came up with destination; a little bit of language overlap happened there as travel destination and aim can be the same word in German. When I thought about it in the break I realized my explanation could be misleading, Alan.

I can see what you were trying to do, however the student needs to have clear context usage that does not cause confusion.

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errors in the tests #83 (permalink) Mon Sep 10, 2007 23:01 pm   errors in the tests
 

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Quote:
Native speakers would do this only as a rather silly verbal joke

I am not speaking of you, Alan. I have done this-- among native speaker acquaintances...and received groans for my effort.

PS: Thanks for locating those, Tom-- wherever did you find them?
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errors in the tests #84 (permalink) Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:18 am   errors in the tests
 

Mister Micawber wrote:
.

Thanks for locating those, Tom-- wherever did you find them?
.


Hi MM

I liked the examples you wrote--they were interesting. So, somehow or the other I was able to keep thm in mind. Now could you please fill in the blanks there. My memory does not serve me well there.

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errors in the tests #85 (permalink) Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:54 am   errors in the tests
 

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Wow! What a memory! I just gave up and created 3 more.

2- The orangutan is up to some monkey business.
3- The eel is an odd fish.


... I think.
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errors in the tests #86 (permalink) Tue Sep 11, 2007 14:56 pm   errors in the tests
 

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Question 7 in this test still needs editing:
http://www.english-test.net/esl/learn/english/grammar/ii099/esl-test.php#seven
This is the forum thread:
http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic12978.html#64827

- Putting the words 'in' and 'into' in quotes (OR italicizing them) would make the test question much easier to read and comprehend.

- The use of both 'whereas' and 'however' in this sentence is substandard -- presumably this incorrect usage was simply a typo. The easiest correction would be to simply delete the word 'whereas'.

Teacher: Ah, you see 'in' means you are there inside, however 'into' means you enter (...)
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errors in the tests #87 (permalink) Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:22 am   errors in the tests
 

Hi Amy,

Thanks a lot for your suggestions, I've made the changes and they'll go online soon.
Regards,
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errors in the tests #88 (permalink) Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:16 pm   errors in the tests
 

Thanks, Torsten.

There's another small typo here:
http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic19966.html#65319
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errors in the tests #89 (permalink) Sat Sep 15, 2007 13:18 pm   errors in the tests
 

.
Here's another typo:
http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic7990.html#65500

The word 'of' is repeated. One of them needs to be deleted.
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errors in the tests #90 (permalink) Sat Sep 15, 2007 21:04 pm   errors in the tests
 

.
I think it would be better if the "wrong" choice were changed to something more universally wrong ("wronger" so to speak Laughing) in this test:
http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic18411.html#65530
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