Errors in the tests

[Mister Micawber]

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I think the context should be changed from wearing apparel to something else in this sentence-- it is unnecessarily confusing. Even a native speaker would hesitate before calling a hat or a dress 'old hat'. Please see:
http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic19896.html
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Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's

[Alan]

That, Charles is the whole point - as it means old fashioned or out of fashion, I as a native speaker did not hesitate to refer it back to an item of clothing.

Alan
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English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story Present Simple

[Yankee]

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My last post was lost somehow, so I'm trying to repost my comments now. I hope MM will also repost his lost comments.

I think I understand your point, Alan, but I agree with Charles here. The idiomatic meaning of 'old hat' can be used to describe many things, but it is generally not used to describe hats or clothing. That would be a bit too literal for this idiomatic expression. The usage examples in the BNC support this.
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"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln

[Mister Micawber]

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Yes, it seems that my post was lost too-- I can't imagine where.

I said that referring an idiom back to its source tends to regress it back to its literal meaning, and the idiom loses its power. To give a new set of examples:

The goose led the fox on a wild goose chase.
The pig in its sty is in hog heaven.
Your fedora is old hat.

Native speakers would do this only as a rather silly verbal joke, and what is an ESL/EFL student to make of them? This is not testing the idiom at all.

In the case under discussion, it left the student floundering upon a minor grammatical anomaly:

[Tom]

Hi, MM

I liked/ enjoyed your previous examples more: :lol:

[Alan]

Hi Tom,

For your information and to defend myself as seems to be becoming more and more the case nowadays, when I wrote the test, it was not as Charles is suggesting that the particular sentence was 'a rather silly verbal joke' but rather intended as a legitimate use of 'old hat' to mean oldfashioned and thus perfectly acceptable when describing what you are wearing. I have been told that I do have a sense of humour but 'rather silly is not how most people describe it.

Alan
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English as a Foreign Language
You can read my EFL story Progressive Forms

[Stew.t.]

Hi guys

I do not think you need to defend yourself Alan, but the clarity in the correction or criticism of your expression is pretty accurate.

If we see it from a learners point of view, this play with words albeit intended to refer back to the origin could be misleading.

The notion of "old hat" as in old fashioned could be better explained.

We as native speakers and trainers should always consider it from the learners point of view, put ourselves in their shoes.

Weighted explanations can be misleading and we should take the advice of others.

Often in the classroom I will find when I have to come up with a explanation on the spot it may not be the best. As happened today when I tried to explain `aim` with amongst other explanations "What you would like to reach, in business, at the end of a project. The students came up with destination; a little bit of language overlap happened there as travel destination and aim can be the same word in German. When I thought about it in the break I realized my explanation could be misleading, Alan.

I can see what you were trying to do, however the student needs to have clear context usage that does not cause confusion.

cheers stew.t.
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Please meet Stewart Tunncilff

[Mister Micawber]

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[Tom]

[Mister Micawber]

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Wow! What a memory! I just gave up and created 3 more.

2- The orangutan is up to some monkey business.
3- The eel is an odd fish.

... I think.
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Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's

[Yankee]

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Question 7 in this test still needs editing:
http://www.english-test.net/esl/learn/english/grammar/ii099/esl-test.php#seven
This is the forum thread:
http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic12978.html#64827

- Putting the words 'in' and 'into' in quotes (OR italicizing them) would make the test question much easier to read and comprehend.

- The use of both 'whereas' and 'however' in this sentence is substandard -- presumably this incorrect usage was simply a typo. The easiest correction would be to simply delete the word 'whereas'.

Teacher: Ah, you see 'in' means you are there inside, however 'into' means you enter (...)
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"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln

[Torsten]

Hi Amy,

Thanks a lot for your suggestions, I've made the changes and they'll go online soon.
Regards,
Torsten

TOEIC listening, photographs: Gardening with the dog

[Yankee]

Thanks, Torsten.

There's another small typo here:
http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic19966.html#65319
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"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln

[Yankee]

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Here's another typo:
http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic7990.html#65500

The word 'of' is repeated. One of them needs to be deleted.
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"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln

[Yankee]

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I think it would be better if the "wrong" choice were changed to something more universally wrong ("wronger" so to speak :lol:) in this test:
http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic18411.html#65530
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_________________
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln