|
|
Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:40 pm Pensees |
|
|
Oh la la, c'est magnifique !
And you can safely cross out the 'soi-disant' and 'manqu?' bits without any 'arri?re-pens?e', Alain. |
|
Conchita Language Coach

Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 2702 Location: Madrid, Spain
|
|
Sat Jul 14, 2007 17:08 pm Pensees |
|
|
Hi Alan
Are all of the italicized words in your text used with roughly the same frequency in Britain? Is the word penchant, for example, really only now coming into vogue in the UK? Or is there some sort of new usage developing? . _________________ Amy
.
ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English |
|
Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 7827 Location: USA
|
 |
Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:37 am Pensees |
|
|
The book "How to Speak and Write Correctly" by Author Joseph Devlin has the following:
"To use a big word or a foreign word when a small one and a familiar one will answer the same purpose, is a sign of ignorance. Great scholars and writers and polite speakers use simple words." |
|
diverhank I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 279 Location: California, USA
|
 |
Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:45 am Pensees |
|
|
Hi Hank,
The question is how do you define "simple words"? I mean, how simple should a word be to qualify as "simple"? What about "semi-simple" words, do they exist too? Also, if all great scholars, writers and polite speakers always use simple words, why do the "complicated" words exist then? Finally, isn't half of the English vocabulary "foreign"? So how can speak English without using "foreign" words? _________________ Test Of English for International Communication TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary |
|
Torsten Site Admin

Joined: 25 Sep 2003 Posts: 7364 Location: EU
|
 |
Sun Jul 15, 2007 13:34 pm Pensees |
|
|
Wow, you have French in this post.... _________________ Im_sandy |
|
sandy191202 New Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2007 Posts: 5 Location: Viet Nam
|
 |
Sun Jul 15, 2007 16:53 pm Pensees |
|
|
Yes, there are lots of "French" words and expressions in English.
I'd still be interested in getting information about the frequency of usage in the UK for the words Alan used, though. I mean, to me part of learning a language is knowing how words and expressions are best and/or most appropriately used. To my American ear, the use of 'penchant' or 'carte blanche' (for example) would not be at all unusual in English, whereas using the expression 'comme il faut' would be very unusual. _________________ Amy
.
ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English |
|
Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 7827 Location: USA
|
 |
Sun Jul 15, 2007 19:10 pm Pensees |
|
|
Hi Diverhank,
Is this the Joseph Devlin you are referring to? The one who wrote:
Precision requires concise and exact expression, free from redundancy and tautology, a style terse and clear and simple enough to enable the hearer or reader to comprehend immediately the meaning of the speaker or writer. It forbids, on the one hand, all long and involved sentences ...?
Exactly, Joseph!
Alan _________________ English as a Foreign Language You can read my EFL story French or English? |
|
Alan Co-founder

Joined: 27 Sep 2003 Posts: 7376 Location: UK
|
 |
Sun Jul 15, 2007 19:24 pm Pensees |
|
|
. I remember my experience learning German. There were plenty of occasions when I had an English word in mind, but didn't know how to say it in German. So, I would often use a dictionary. I then normally tried to use any new vocabulary in conversation with German friends in order to make sure I learned and retained the word and also to make sure I was using it correctly.
There were times when my German friends would simply look at me in wonder and ask me where in the world I had heard a word I had just used. They sometimes told me that "nobody would ever use that word".
That was valuable input for me and I think that also illustrates the potential "danger" of dictionaries. Just because a word or phrase can be found in a dictionary, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is or should be used on a regular basis, or with little regard to context. . Though I thought the French words and expressions were put to an entertaining and appropriate use in Alan's text, I was interested in knowing more about the general usage in the UK. As I mentioned, some of those "French" words seem pretty common or well-known to my American ear, but others don't. . _________________ Amy
.
ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English |
|
Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 7827 Location: USA
|
 |
Sun Jul 15, 2007 23:10 pm Pensees |
|
|
Hi,
| Quote: | | I'd still be interested in getting information about the frequency of usage in the UK for the words Alan used, though. |
So would many of us, and I am sure Alan will provide us with some very useful information regarding this now that requests for further information have been submitted.
| Quote: | | To my American ear, the use of 'penchant' or 'carte blanche' (for example) would not be at all unusual in English |
I wonder if your average native English speaker knows how to pronounce these words correctly.
British speakers of English tend to use and know more English words of French origin than do American speakers.
All the best
EU |
|
Englishuser I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 06 Jun 2006 Posts: 806
|
 |
Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:26 am Pensees |
|
|
| Englishuser wrote: | | I wonder if your average native English speaker knows how to pronounce these words correctly. |
What do you mean by "correctly", EU? Is it the French pronunciation, the British pronunciation, the American pronunciation -- or something else?
In the US, the pronunciation of the word penchant is hardly reminiscent of French at all. The pronunciation of carte blanche, on the other hand, sounds more "French".
| Englishuser wrote: | | British speakers of English tend to use and know more English words of French origin than do American speakers. | I suppose that wouldn't be too surprising. The proximity alone is bound to have one effect or another. . _________________ Amy
.
ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English |
|
Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 7827 Location: USA
|
 |
|
| North Korean nuclear weapon test | Bruce is back on the Forum |