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Pensees Fri Jul 13, 2007 13:42 pm  Pensees
 

Hi,

PENSEES

I’ve noticed recently as I sit in my pied a terre just outside London that there is a penchant developing towards the use of French words. Using not only bons mots but also finding the mot juste. Just so you don’t think I have committed a faux pas, I should point out that my keyboard doesn’t do many accents and they of course are de rigueur in French, as we all know. After all you don’t need to have much savoir-faire to realise that. But revenons a nos moutons and my reference to the mot juste. When I sit down to write my newsletter, or should I say soi-disant newsletter? I hope that a good apercu will come into my mind so that I can write with bags of ?clat. I start off with plenty of bonhomie and I must confess a dash of sang froid because although I have carte blanche in what I write, my concern is that I may end up looking maladroit and what I really want to do is create a piece de resistance or at least a tour de force. My last newsletter centred around GPS and if you have read it, you will be aware that it’s a case of cherchez la femme and Jane (the voice on the device) is, I have to admit, a bit of a femme fatale. But don’t worry the letter is comme il faut with just a soupcon of espieglerie. In point of fact it concerns my bad sense of direction and is in a way a cri de coeur. I rely therefore on your support in this matter with a sense of esprit de corps from everyone because I would hate to be regarded as a newsletter writer manqu?. The letters are so to speak, pr?t-a-porter. The secret of a good letter is hard to describe as it has a certain je ne sais quoi but ca ne fait rien. I have reached the stage where I have had enough of this franglais. I must get back to my Anglo-Saxon roots - so I won’t say au revoir or adieu or even a bientot but simply Farewell. And I won’t use my nom de plume, Alain but my real name,

Alan
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Pensees Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:40 pm  Pensees
 

Laughing

Oh la la, c'est magnifique !

And you can safely cross out the 'soi-disant' and 'manqu?' bits without any 'arri?re-pens?e', Alain.
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Pensees Sat Jul 14, 2007 17:08 pm  Pensees
 

Hi Alan

Are all of the italicized words in your text used with roughly the same frequency in Britain? Is the word penchant, for example, really only now coming into vogue in the UK? Or is there some sort of new usage developing?
.
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Pensees Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:37 am  Pensees
 

The book "How to Speak and Write Correctly" by Author Joseph Devlin has the following:

"To use a big word or a foreign word when a small one and a familiar one will answer the same purpose, is a sign of ignorance. Great scholars and writers and polite speakers use simple words."
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Pensees Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:45 am  Pensees
 

Hi Hank,

The question is how do you define "simple words"? I mean, how simple should a word be to qualify as "simple"? What about "semi-simple" words, do they exist too? Also, if all great scholars, writers and polite speakers always use simple words, why do the "complicated" words exist then? Finally, isn't half of the English vocabulary "foreign"? So how can speak English without using "foreign" words?
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Pensees Sun Jul 15, 2007 13:34 pm  Pensees
 

Wow, you have French in this post....
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Pensees Sun Jul 15, 2007 16:53 pm  Pensees
 

Yes, there are lots of "French" words and expressions in English.

I'd still be interested in getting information about the frequency of usage in the UK for the words Alan used, though. I mean, to me part of learning a language is knowing how words and expressions are best and/or most appropriately used. To my American ear, the use of 'penchant' or 'carte blanche' (for example) would not be at all unusual in English, whereas using the expression 'comme il faut' would be very unusual.
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Pensees Sun Jul 15, 2007 19:10 pm  Pensees
 

Hi Diverhank,

Is this the Joseph Devlin you are referring to? The one who wrote:

Precision requires concise and exact expression, free from redundancy and tautology, a style terse and clear and simple enough to enable the hearer or reader to comprehend immediately the meaning of the speaker or writer. It forbids, on the one hand, all long and involved sentences ...?

Exactly, Joseph!

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Pensees Sun Jul 15, 2007 19:24 pm  Pensees
 

.
I remember my experience learning German. There were plenty of occasions when I had an English word in mind, but didn't know how to say it in German. So, I would often use a dictionary. I then normally tried to use any new vocabulary in conversation with German friends in order to make sure I learned and retained the word and also to make sure I was using it correctly.

There were times when my German friends would simply look at me in wonder and ask me where in the world I had heard a word I had just used. They sometimes told me that "nobody would ever use that word".

That was valuable input for me and I think that also illustrates the potential "danger" of dictionaries. Just because a word or phrase can be found in a dictionary, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is or should be used on a regular basis, or with little regard to context.
.
Though I thought the French words and expressions were put to an entertaining and appropriate use in Alan's text, I was interested in knowing more about the general usage in the UK. As I mentioned, some of those "French" words seem pretty common or well-known to my American ear, but others don't.
.
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Pensees Sun Jul 15, 2007 23:10 pm  Pensees
 

Hi,

Quote:
I'd still be interested in getting information about the frequency of usage in the UK for the words Alan used, though.

So would many of us, and I am sure Alan will provide us with some very useful information regarding this now that requests for further information have been submitted.

Quote:
To my American ear, the use of 'penchant' or 'carte blanche' (for example) would not be at all unusual in English

I wonder if your average native English speaker knows how to pronounce these words correctly.

British speakers of English tend to use and know more English words of French origin than do American speakers.

All the best

EU
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Pensees Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:26 am  Pensees
 

Englishuser wrote:
I wonder if your average native English speaker knows how to pronounce these words correctly.

What do you mean by "correctly", EU? Is it the French pronunciation, the British pronunciation, the American pronunciation -- or something else?

In the US, the pronunciation of the word penchant is hardly reminiscent of French at all. The pronunciation of carte blanche, on the other hand, sounds more "French".

Englishuser wrote:
British speakers of English tend to use and know more English words of French origin than do American speakers.
I suppose that wouldn't be too surprising. The proximity alone is bound to have one effect or another. Wink
.
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