Intercultural communication

[Jamie (K)]

Stew, I think you're missing the whole point of the exchange that is going on in this thread. I am posing situations that are based on real occurrences where there was misunderstanding between Germans and Americans. People (mainly Amy and Bruce) have been providing their explanations as to what is at the core of the misunderstandings and how the situation should be understood by each side. This is productive for helping people deal with behaviors of one side or the other without being offended. In my case, it helps me assist real Americans who have to work with Germans and have really been offended in such situations. Just singing Kumbaya and proclaiming, "Let's all avoid the negatives!" does more harm than good to these people, because they need to understand how the Germans think and why they do things, not simply that we're all brothers who have to live together on the same planet Earth.

Your example of a German company that uses only English for internal auditing and job satisfaction feedback wasn't an example of good international communication in my mind, because it puts many employees in other countries at a disadvantage to the native English speakers. It also sets up the possibility that the non-native speakers will be misunderstood through mistaken use of English expressions (as frequently happens at a German company I deal with). It also indicates to me that the company isn't sensitive to local conditions and local ways of understanding and doing things. I can give you an example of a Czech friend of mine who went to work at a worldwide company based in Finland. This man's English is nearly perfect, and he thought he'd be able to communicate well at the company, because its official working language worldwide is English. It turned out that communication was actually impeded by using English, because most of the employees in the world spoke such faulty English that certain concepts could not be expressed, and certain issues could not be dealt with.

[Lost_Soul]

[Torsten]

[Ralf]

Dear Stew, dear Jamie (K),

I was quite amazed to follow your debate on this ESL forum. There are a few questions I would like to ask you:

Stew, do you feel qualified enough to debate with self-proclaimed linguists and people who are more than eager to demonstrate their sophistication at all costs?

Jamie (K), is there any leitmotif other than proving your point behind your utterances?

Both of you, do you think such a debate is likely to help a learner of English improve their performance?

As far as I am concerned, this forum has some potential to give learners a deeper insight into both the English language and cultural dimensions of the same. If I were a learner who was eager to participate in such a discussion, I would be very scared to voice my opinion. And if communication between Czech and Finnish people is supposed to be subject to impedance on a language or cultural level, your debate really proves the point that there is always more involved than those factors.

Have a better weekend,

Ralf

PS - Jamie (K), does your German antagonism actually come from a German background? I am have German myself, and your style of writing (and i'm not alluding to grammar here) has great potential to impress an Einwohnermeldeamtschefsekret?rin R.
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[Prezbucky]

Einwohnermeldeamtschefsekret?rin

Whoa -- long word!

Let's see if I can think of an English word or two to challenge it for length:

Methylchloroisothiazolinone (check the ingredients list on your shampoo bottle)

Antidisestablishmentarianism (which is a double-negative -- it's really just establishmentarianism. hehe)
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[Jamie (K)]

[Jamie (K)]

[Ralf]

Dear Jamie,

Thank you for your lecture, and for ripping out quotes and half-quotes of my entry. Polemics work this way.

You see, even if you only use this forum to express your opinion, I wonder where all this bitterniss comes from. My typo "I am have German" should have meant "half German", so I think I know that there are certainly a lot of stereotypes to pick on. You chose to quote "Germans [who] shout down the street to me to ask directions to a brothel". Fair play to you. This example is probably meant to substantiate your intercultural expertise by stating that you have already seen everything there is to see.

But it helps to keep your eyes open and see things from an unclouded point of view. This attitude helps me to get on fine with Americans.

Take care,

Ralf
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[Ralf]

Dear prezbucky,

You are right, 'Einwohnermeldeamtschefsekret?rin' is a mad long word. And it means as much as 'secretary in chief of the registry office'. The sheer magnitude of boundless possibilities to make up compound nouns is probably the most scaring thing about the German language. Next to 27 ways to say "the", that is.

Take care,

Ralf
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[Stew.t.]

Hi Jamie (K)

Thks for your as always respectful manner and willingness to see the reflection of anyone who wishes to simply point something out to you.
I will try to avoid joining all the other boy scouts by not singing about "avoiding negatives". Although usually a pint or two helps with my Karaoke voice.

As debate is about not just talking but discussion of opposing views, I thought another perspective would have been listened to, my biggy.

Seeing the failings in other cultures, which is how you come across, often requires to reflect on your own. If you really do help Americans by pointing out "how the Germans think", then power to your elbow: ; )

Bruce did reflect on the reasons behind certain behavioural patterns, and gave a quite rounded approach to looking at examples, pointing out come constructive and possible reasoning for the highlighted behaviour. And Amy added her expertise.

Simply listing what "they" did wrong, as I said, is not always productive if you do not go to the stem. The title to the thread eludes to something it is not. Fair enough you have had response from two fellow Americans and Bruce. This does not really reflect much Internationalism. No offense to their contributions.

Why does a system in a bank monitored by native English speakers put them at a disadvantage to native English speakers?
Are native English speakers inherently at an advantage to non-native speakers because they have a better command of the language?
Being a non-native speaker is sometimes not disadvantageous, as many can have better communication skills than some native English speakers.
And the fact the bank is a global player and they allow the whole company to read and see how people do things elsewhere does in my opinion help International communication.

If everybody who did not reach a perceived or prejudged standard of communication then there would be no tolerance or adjustment to different modes of expression. And could this hinder international communication?

To reflect on Yankees point I think this thread has, if not exclusively, avoided "knowing the language (and culture)....and what is actually meant or expected as well as what is understood".

You miss my point and maybe if you could consider why other cultures have not contributed? A rounded debate with contributions from many sides surely reflects International communication, does it not?
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[Stew.t.]

Hi Ralf

As to being qualified, maybe I ain?t.
I am not sure my meager Cambridge and Manchester qualifications (in sub pseudo non international linguistics) qualify me here let alone elsewhere.

As for a certificate, whats a piece of paper worth? and how dare you question my ability to make comment with other thread contributors.
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[Torsten]

[Jamie (K)]

[Torsten]

Hi Jamie,

I think talking about problems from the previous week is not so much a question of culture as a question of attitude. In any culture people know that there is no use crying over spilled milk. Still, there is a certain percentage of people who would do exactly that. Obviously this percentage is higher in Germany than in the US because Germans do have a tendency to complain and harp on about negative things. The German social system allows them to do so while Americans are more likely to concentrate on the positive side of things and get on with their lives simply because the American culture is based on personal initiative and entrepreneurship. The same holds true for any country that has a lower social security level than Germany. For example, every time I'm in the Ukraine I'm amazed at how positively the young generation is looking at their situation. The birthrate is several times as high as in Germany although the conditions are much tougher.

So, I think your observations simply show different ways of looking at the same situation and your culture and education are just some of the many factors that determine your attitude towards life. I'm sure you could surround yourself by positive thinking, open-minded people in any country. When it comes to communicating with other people, your attitude is probably much more important than your cultural background.

People who experience a "culture shock" when they travel to another country are probably rather petty-minded and have usually difficulties getting along in their own country. Those are the people who "major in the minors" instead of focusing on the real issues. I mean, when I go to another country I do expect to experience some differences, that's the very reason I'm going there, isn't it? If I want everything to be the way it is at home then why should I move somewhere else?

What's wrong with making jokes during a meeting in which a solution for a technical problem should be found? After all, humour can be an excellent stimulus and often triggers new thoughts that help find the very solution you are looking for. Many people know this Jamie and if your Germans don't then they probably will be happy to learn something new. I mean after a while even the "most German" German might understand that humour is the key to most problems in life.
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[Jamie (K)]