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#17 (permalink) Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:03 am Learning Foreign Languages |
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| Yankee wrote: | | Jamie (K) wrote: | | Also, as long as the French get on the news for doing comical things, teenagers will not be interested in getting to know their language and culture.. | Come on, Jamie. How many 15-year-old American boys do you know who actually even watch or read the news -- especially world news? |
I don't know. In my neighborhood 15-year-old boys watch and read the news. Not all of them, but probably more than study languages. In our school system, "staying informed" is pounded into kids from elementary school on, so that by the time they're 15 it's just habit. They pay attention to the news out of guilt, if nothing else.
I learned about most 1960s art movements for the first time not from my art history classes in art school, but from the little newspapers we had to get in third grade. I knew about the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution because it was in the newspapers we had to get in 7th grade, but by that time we were supposed to be reading the regular newspaper. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 5267 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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#18 (permalink) Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:45 am Learning Foreign Languages |
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Hi Jamie
Judging by what's on TV and in the newspapers around here (it's a 2-hour drive to the nearest major city, but by no means sparcely populated here), international news is pretty limited. I know there are certain current topics that are being covered pretty intensively in the schools (environmental issues, for example), but news in general, and especially international news, doesn't appear to be something that receives that much attention in the schools.
I've noticed, though, that many teenage boys around here tend to be right up-to-date on the very latest news about things such as X-Box recalls. . |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
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#19 (permalink) Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:24 am Learning Foreign Languages |
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Amy, international news is limited everywhere. Educated Germans who I teach in the US complain that the American media hardly cover the rest of the world at all, so then I start grilling them about what their own German media are saying currently about Mexico, Peru, Argentina and Brazil, or about countries in their own back yard, such as Bosnia, Albania, Ukraine or Poland. Do you know what? They can't tell me anything, because their own media also give very scant coverage of international news. They can seldom even tell you the major issues that are current in the US, and if they can, it's usually with some bizarre slant. But something creates the impression in them that international news is covered in their media but not in ours.
Boys in my neighborhood also know all the details of the latest gameware. However, one day I was in a large bookstore when a couple of thuggishly dressed 16-year-olds passed me. I thought they were there just to pick up something they "had to get". As they passed, however, I heard them talking in standard English about various 19th-century classic novels they'd read. They were books that I know are not required reading at school, so I guess these "thugs" had been reading relatively difficult literature for pleasure.
Don't get me started on the teaching of environmental issues in the American schools. It's always activist driven and involves bogus "science" that predicts things that never come to pass. Are you old enough to remember when they scared us into believing that the world was cooling so rapidly that the polar ice caps would soon expand to cover New York? Or that by 1980 there would be no petroleum left anywhere in the world? And, of course, these things were said to be caused by the same "sins" that they now say cause "global warming". |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 5267 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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#20 (permalink) Sat Jul 21, 2007 23:19 pm Learning Foreign Languages |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: | | Amy, international news is limited everywhere. Educated Germans who I teach in the US complain that the American media hardly cover the rest of the world at all, so then I start grilling them about what their own German media are saying currently about Mexico, Peru, Argentina and Brazil, or about countries in their own back yard, such as Bosnia, Albania, Ukraine or Poland. Do you know what? They can't tell me anything, because their own media also give very scant coverage of international news. They can seldom even tell you the major issues that are current in the US, and if they can, it's usually with some bizarre slant. But something creates the impression in them that international news is covered in their media but not in ours. | Yes, I noticed the same thing while I was in Germany and had the same sorts of conversations with my German friends and students.
| Jamie (K) wrote: | | Are you old enough to remember when they scared us into believing that the world was cooling so rapidly that the polar ice caps would soon expand to cover New York? Or that by 1980 there would be no petroleum left anywhere in the world? | I taught my first class back in 1974, so, yes, I guess I'm old enough. . |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
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#21 (permalink) Sun Jul 22, 2007 21:37 pm Learning Foreign Languages |
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Good evening, About languages : coming back home by Air France waked up early in the morning with a standard question if you need to fill in emigration registration card ( we were bounding for Paris from J'bourg ) I two times repeated "me" - in transit to Berlin and "I am Polish" The very pretty French Stewardess said "in that case certainly you would need to register" Again after reading the handed paper . It is not for EU countries citizens Madam I am from Poland Guess the answer Where is Poland? Is it Europe?....
Now you may imagine why French language have some handicap with expanding .... . Lack of education , I am afraid just guess to f...k what should I talk about with a woman with smart clothes but empty head?
Jan |
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Jan I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 01 Apr 2006 Posts: 316 Location: At sea
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#22 (permalink) Mon Jul 23, 2007 21:20 pm Learning Foreign Languages |
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| Jan wrote: | Good evening, About languages : coming back home by Air France waked up early in the morning with a standard question if you need to fill in emigration registration card ( we were bounding for Paris from J'bourg ) I two times repeated "me" - in transit to Berlin and "I am Polish" The very pretty French Stewardess said "in that case certainly you would need to register" Again after reading the handed paper . It is not for EU countries citizens Madam I am from Poland Guess the answer Where is Poland? Is it Europe?....
Now you may imagine why French language have some handicap with expanding .... . Lack of education , I am afraid just guess to f...k what should I talk about with a woman with smart clothes but empty head?
Jan |
On the other hand, I'm sure she would have known where 'Pologne' is. Or did you ask her in French?
Oh, and just because someone is bad at geography doesn't mean they're empty-headed. At least I hope so (please someone reassure me!)... 
| Jan wrote: | what should I talk about with a woman with smart clothes but empty head? |
Since when is that a problem for men? |
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Conchita Language Coach

Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 2826 Location: Madrid, Spain
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#23 (permalink) Mon Jul 23, 2007 23:55 pm Learning Foreign Languages |
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| Englishuser wrote: | Hi Jamie,
Do you mean that most American boys suffer from some kind of 'sissyphobia'?
EU |
I think only American boys in Jamie's neighborhood. I have never heard such an absurd generalization of Americans! |
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Diverhank I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 362 Location: California, USA
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#24 (permalink) Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:33 am Learning Foreign Languages |
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| diverhank wrote: | | Englishuser wrote: | | Do you mean that most American boys suffer from some kind of 'sissyphobia'? |
I think only American boys in Jamie's neighborhood. I have never heard such an absurd generalization of Americans! |
Yeah, but you're from California, which is not really part of the United States, as most Americans will point out. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 5267 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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#25 (permalink) Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:25 am Learning Foreign Languages |
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| Yes, those rednecks from Michigan who are on drugs and make sh*tty cars |
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Diverhank I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 362 Location: California, USA
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#26 (permalink) Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:22 am Learning Foreign Languages |
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| diverhank wrote: | | Yes, those rednecks from Michigan who are on drugs and make sh*tty cars |
An interesting remark from the 1970s, as if the past 30 years of technological development never happened. Ford and GM have now far surpassed VW in quality and Ford is in a three-way tie for quality among the world's carmakers. Californians really should have nothing to say about rotten cars, since they were heavy buyers of Hyundais and Kias back when they had the worst quality in the industry. To this day, if given the choice between an Asian car of poor reliability and a US-made car of good quality, they'll tend to choose the bad Asian car over the good US car (while naturally preferring a good Asian car over both of them).
The drug remark is just comical coming from the state that promoted LSD to the world and is still a haven for drug burnouts and "medical" marijuana enthusiasts. And drugs aside, your state has a reputation for phony people, and quite a lot of people try the place for a while and then move to the Midwest to be near people who are better grounded.
Don't bother coming up with the "murder city" clich? either, because our gangs don't spray crowds of people on street corners, and the downtown of the largest city in California is just as dead as that of the largest city in Michigan.
And regardless of what a politically correct adult Californian might think, the vast majority of teenage boys in the US -- like the vast majority of teenage boys anywhere -- don't care to look or behave in a way that might be identified as gay, even if they don't have any animosity toward gay people they know personally. Many teenage boys consider French culture to be gay, and they don't like studying French for that reason. It's not even their fault. It's the fault of the people who misrepresent French culture to them, which is often textbook writers. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 5267 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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#27 (permalink) Tue Jul 24, 2007 13:08 pm Learning Foreign Languages |
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Hi, Jamie
I thought gay is used to describe something that sucks, not only to describe homosectual Thinking that everything relating France is gay maybe they just think that France sucks? |
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Lost_Soul I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 1861 Location: South Park, Colorado, USA
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#28 (permalink) Tue Jul 24, 2007 13:37 pm Learning Foreign Languages |
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No. You need a little terminological history.
In what is now the old days, the formal term for gays was "homosexuals" and in slang people called them "queers". The word "queer" means strange or bizarre.
There is a tendency in the United States for groups that many people dislike (or of whom some members do things that people dislike) to insist that the media and society in general start calling them by a different name. For example, Americans of African descent used to be politely called "colored". However, that started to get a negative connotation, so their activists promoted use of the word "negro". A while after that, they changed it to "Negro", then several years after that they insisted on "black", then "Black", and a couple decades after that "African-American". (However, in reality blacks generally still call themselves "black", and it's mainly whites who are expected to use the term "African-American".)
In the 1970s, homosexuals wanted to try the same name-change trick to try to give themselves a positive public image, and their activists insisted the word "gay" be used. This word didn't mean homosexual, but actually meant "joyful". The word change didn't improve homosexuals' public image. And some people even got angry because "they stole a perfectly good word from us."
Proof that a name change doesn't change public opinion can be seen in the fact that when the word "gay" was promoted as a positive term for homosexuals, kids just used it to replace the word "queer". So, where kids in my generation would have exclaimed, "How queer!" when we thought something was strange and stupid, kids for the past couple of decades have exclaimed, "How gay!" instead.
The boys don't think France merely "sucks". They really think of it as "gay" in the homosexual sense. You can see it in their movements and facial expressions when they imitate French people. As I say, this is because they're mainly exposed to feminine aspects of French culture and are not exposed to masculine aspects.
By the way, the word "sucks", used to mean something is bad, is part of a longer, very racist obscenity, so you should avoid using it in polite company. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 5267 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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#29 (permalink) Tue Jul 24, 2007 16:00 pm Learning Foreign Languages |
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Hi, Some occupations for example Air Lines Stewardesses are expected to understand the answer in the same language which they had just asked for something themselves. English is not the Esperanto but what to do...??? They use it profoundly all over sky. Knowing Geography ... well ? - for English teacher just politeness but for Air France Employee ??? About woman in smart clothes and whatever in the head instead of brain. Yes of course you are very right I don't mind.... Sometimes just dreaming how nice could it be to match both in once. In You case I certainly would accept all given choices what ever conclusions. Some seem to be so gorges they don't need to say a word ... I mean woman or man , queer or gay any knowledge may be devastating for sex appeal.
Jan |
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Jan I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 01 Apr 2006 Posts: 316 Location: At sea
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#30 (permalink) Tue Jul 24, 2007 16:19 pm Learning Foreign Languages |
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| I had an experience on LOT Polish airlines where the stewardesses who claimed not to speak English could be understood easily, but the one who was supposedly fluent was absolutely impossible to understand. When the "fluent" one gave announcements over the loudspeaker, I never noticed when she had switched from Polish to English. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 5267 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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