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 Mon Aug 06, 2007 13:33 pm Another reason Americans can't learn languages |
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Hi, Torsten
Well, from that I can only deduce that he comes from the US of A 
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Alex
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Lost_Soul
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Location: South Park, Colorado, USA
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| Mon Aug 06, 2007 13:43 pm Another reason Americans can't learn languages |
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| lost_soul wrote: | Hi, Torsten
Well, from that I can only deduce that he comes from the US of A |
He's from England. |
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Jamie (K)
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Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Mon Aug 06, 2007 20:49 pm Another reason Americans can't learn languages |
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So this discussion had been booming up like now I saw? Seem its really a good job for everybody, since every hot spot needs dispute or that we had no necessity to talk about that to waste our times and to act our finguers.
Jamie, I would like if you can clarify a statement briefly about the analysis in "Why the Americans can't learn a foreign language like others?". Because I had not a very clearly outline about this condition of you said.
I just think to consider a common impact in one society, we can not conclude one reason without the other related elements liek the historial causes or characters in humans and so forth. The "issue" we called is identified to the "relationships" or "connections". We can't talk about anything without other causalities right?
Moreover, I am really interesting to hear from you about your viewpoints at this issue. Also you may build a specific background served to your ideas reasonable when they are placing in it. For the matter, It would makes you to be more objective and more macroscopical on driving this topic=)
P.S. Before I saw your post I even hadn't heart about this problem during Americans. But its truely similar to a certain phenomenon in China. I guess I can make a comparative inquiry beteew those later.
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Princess
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| Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:11 am Spanish is catching up with English! |
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Greetings Jan and everybody,
Bruce here.
I recently discovered an article about the importance
of the Spanish language. If the statistics on this Website
are correct then the Spanish language is the second most
important language on this planet after English.
See this Link :
http://www.spanish-school.com.mx/learnspanish.html
In the USA Spanish is the natural second language.
I recently read or heard that the Spanish language has
expanded at such a rate in the US (because of so many
immigrant workers - of course) that Georgie "baby" Bush
and associates started getting nervous to the point of
realisation that they would all have to learn Spanish otherwise
they wouldn?t be able to get anything done as far as the
everyday home services are concerned.
By simply stating the facts, without being too insulting to
George Bush, he wasn?t able to express or articulate himself
in English too well in public at the beginning of his presidency.
I think he has improved alot since?!?!?! Now he has finally
learned English with all it?s pains and joys I think the prospect
of learning a second language (albeit a quite easy one to learn
as I understand it ) that must come as shock ... what?
That?s probably why they want to build a wall along the
California / Mexico border - or what do you think ?
Further to this I understand that thousands of Chinese
are learning English like Henry Ford?s mass production
line turned out cars. I don?t know how many more millions
have already done English courses but if a large percentage
of the Chinese carry on in this manner then they will increase
the said statistics to unbeatable numbers.
All in all, just consider this !"§$%/&/()=)=?`*':;
The English language soaks up all cultures and languages it
affects in it?s expansion on this planet.
There are 26 letters in the alphabet and if we include words
from many other cultures we could expand the alphabet to
include these sounds. Let?s start with the Roman languages
like Spanish, French and Italian; then move to maybe to the
Kyrillic / Cyrillic (please correct my spelling here if necessary anybody)
languages like Russian etc. then move across to Sanskrit based
languages in India etc. and continue onto maybe to Hebrew and Greek -
on and on and on - not to mention Chinese, Indonesian etc.
I think that in maybe 50 to 100 years the language on this planet is
going to become pretty unified, flexible and colourful. Certainly in 200 years.
I say that because of the speed of the technological progress on this planet
not using history as a yardstick of language developement.
I also think the alphabet will expand proportionately and calculate
a minimum of 50 letters to be a good average of sounds and letters.
After all, the Phonetic Alphabet which you find in all the English dictionaries
- which nobody learns at school (or few) - ranges to about 90 symbols and sounds.
I think that?s the reason somebody decided to create Esperanto.
2000 years ago we would all have had to learn Latin (in Europe at least).
As English language expert David Crystal said, "the developement of a
language usually has an army behind it".
Whatever the development, I say let?s enjoy it.
The English language is made up of over a million words from many countries
and new words are developing and being added every week.
Some of the countries & languages are :
Iberian (Spanish), Celtic (Gaelic), Latin (Italian) about 60%,
Anglo-Saxon (German), French, Danish, Norwegian,
India (Sanskrit - Hindi etc.), Japanese, Greece, some Hebrew or Yiddish,
Australian (Mauri & Aboriginal) ... who knows what else?
Any comments out there?
Best wishes, Bruce.
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Bruce
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| Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:24 am Spanish is catching up with English! |
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| Bruce wrote: | In the USA Spanish is the natural second language.
I recently read or heard that the Spanish language has
expanded at such a rate in the US (because of so many
immigrant workers - of course) that Georgie "baby" Bush
and associates started getting nervous to the point of
realisation that they would all have to learn Spanish otherwise
they wouldn?t be able to get anything done as far as the
everyday home services are concerned. |
What are you talking about? What do you mean by "home services"?
President Bush is the former governor of Texas, and he could already speak Spanish before his first presidential election. In fact, some of his slip-ups in English have had their source in Spanish, in particular once when he referred to Hispanics as "Hispanos". The press made a lot of fun of that, without ever observing that he'd just accidentally switched languages.
| Bruce wrote: | By simply stating the facts, without being too insulting to
George Bush, he wasn?t able to express or articulate himself
in English too well in public at the beginning of his presidency.
I think he has improved alot since?!?!?! Now he has finally
learned English with all it?s pains and joys I think the prospect
of learning a second language (albeit a quite easy one to learn
as I understand it ) that must come as shock ... what? |
I like the way you say "without being too insulting to George Bush" right before you insult him. Just stating facts, without being too insulting to you, Bruce, you sound like an idiot on this post.
As I've mentioned in posts long past, President Bush is the victim of a press trick that was used on Presidents Ford, Reagan, Bush 41, and to a much lesser extent on President Clinton. That is the trick of running raw, unedited quotes in the news. When a political figure is in favor with the press (which in the US is mostly ideologically uniform), they edit his quotes, as they do everyone's, removing the "duh's", the backtracking and the circumlocutions. When they want to make a politician appear to be an imbecile, they frequently run his quotes unedited, and they sound much worse in print than in real life. This trick can be done to anyone, and I have to confess, I did it myself occasionally when I was an editor. The improvement you're perceiving in Bush's English is not attributable to an improvement in his language skills, but to the press's resumption of normal editing practice. This usually happens in the second term of office.
And, again, you're too late. Bush has been able to speak Spanish for years. Some radio shows here make a game out of playing recordings of presidential candidates speaking Spanish, to see whose is the worst, and Bush never wins the worst-Spanish prize.
| Bruce wrote: | That?s probably why they want to build a wall along the
California / Mexico border - or what do you think ? |
Not to be too insulting to you, Bruce, you you're an oblivious moron.
The reason MOST OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC wants to build a wall at the Mexican border (and Bush is not enthusiastic about this) is that not only poor, peaceful Mexicans seeking work cross that border undetected, but also violent Latin American criminals -- many of whom have already been deported -- and undesirables from many countries, including would-be bombers from the Middle East.
I have never crossed into the UK or Germany or any European country without my passport having been looked at. At the French border I saw police chasing an African through the train and outside it, with dogs, as I remember. In Germany I saw a Kurd with a Dutch passport, speaking perfect Dutch, removed from the train at the border. In European countries, I saw Russians and Ukrainians interrogated at three successive borders about how much money they had and what kind. I saw a Polish man taken away for a strip search because he'd hidden money in a roll of toilet paper. I have always been questioned when going to Canada, and when I was a teenager Canadian customs regularly searched my entire car.
You Europeans check everybody coming in, controlling the flow of people into your countries as strictly as possible, and then you smugly make fun of Americans for wanting to do the same.
Many of my ESL students resent that Spanish speakers have been set up as a preferred linguistic group in the US. They get to use their own language at ATMs, in stores and in all kinds of places. They get their own bilingual classrooms, and even their own school in my city. Meanwhile, it's assumed that Russians, Chinese, Arabs, Albanians and others are smart enough to learn English, so no such assistance is given to them. You can walk into social agencies and government offices in Arabic neighborhoods where the signs are all in English and Spanish. Hispanics are the only group who are treated in such a patronizing way, as if they were incapable of learning English. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4401
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:17 am Spanish is catching up with English! |
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Hi,
Could You ask any Englishman why English has developed...
Would You accept the predicted answer.....???
More important.
live with native speakers of English months ,years and they will lose the mask of politeness and say straight ....... .
Ask simply people they are more honest and less "diplomatic".
Don't be shock you would react same "ugly" way in case of spread of German.
I can predict what would happen but I know more or less if people realize
how English really function worldwide they would question sense of giving a credit to this.
English "culture" and attached English language is since some period recognized
as less aggressive, less "dumb", or more liberate as French , German , Spanish ,Russian etc
I think all this is changing slowly now in favor of Spanish.
Who cares after all?
For sure I don't care at all ...
You want be slave ... you are 'slave" no problem Sir Bruce...
Regards
Provocateur Jan |
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Jan
I'm here quite often ;-)
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Posts: 297
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| Tue Aug 07, 2007 15:02 pm Another reason Americans can't learn languages |
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Hi,
stew.t. wrote:
| Quote: | | Your personal jibes are just not appropriate |
| Quote: | | However you are casting certain remarks that are just not diplomatic. |
Stew.t. is not the only person on this forum who has been "attacked" by Jamie (K). I believe this forum would be much better off without public personal attacks. If Jamie (K) wishes to criticise an individual forum member he should make better use of the PM system, in my opinion.
All the best
EU |
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Englishuser
I'm here quite often ;-)
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Posts: 806
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| Tue Aug 07, 2007 15:08 pm Another reason Americans can't learn languages |
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Hi, Englishuser
You're forgetting about the right of free speech.
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Alex
How much upchuck would a woodchuck upchuck if a woodchuck could upchuck ?
(a guy from Russia) |
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Lost_Soul
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 1856
Location: South Park, Colorado, USA
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| Tue Aug 07, 2007 15:18 pm Another reason Americans can't learn languages |
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Hi lost_soul,
This website is privately operated and is by no means the only place where Jamie (K) can express his views. This site is devoted to learners of English as a foreign or second language, and I honestly cannot see why Jamie should go on criticising the way other ESL trainers write. Do you think many ESL students are likely to sign up when they see that even the ESL instructors on board cannot refrain from insults?
I agree that it is important to maintain a certain level of accuracy on the site, particularly in the tests and articles section. If an ESL trainer makes mistakes in his or her postings, I think it is insensitive to address the issue in public in the way Jamie does. I would ask Jamie to contact the forum member concerned directly.
If the issue persists Jamie could consult Alan or Torsten, who, after all, decide what they wish to be said on this forum.
All the best
EU |
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Englishuser
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 806
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| Tue Aug 07, 2007 15:25 pm Another reason Americans can't learn languages |
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We have a number of forum threads, among which there are a few especially designed for esl questions and this thread designed for talking about anything you want.
I dont see anything wrong with Jamie or anyone else expressing their views on other members' posts.
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Alex
How much upchuck would a woodchuck upchuck if a woodchuck could upchuck ?
(a guy from Russia) |
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Lost_Soul
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 1856
Location: South Park, Colorado, USA
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| Tue Aug 07, 2007 15:33 pm Another reason Americans can't learn languages |
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Hi,
Stew.t. -- what have drunken after all ....
Doctor Jan Guinness - specialization alcoholic problems among ESL students |
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Jan
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 297
Location: At sea
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| Tue Aug 07, 2007 15:33 pm Another reason Americans can't learn languages |
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Hi lost_soul,
Obviously there is nothing wrong with commenting on another forum member's ideas as such. This becomes an issue when the other forum member feels you are intentionally insulting him or her. It is possible for any forum member to ask a question about the grammaticality of a particular sentence in the grammar and vocabulary section. It would be inappropriate to do so here.
All the best
EU |
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Englishuser
I'm here quite often ;-)
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| Tue Aug 07, 2007 18:29 pm Another reason Americans can't learn languages |
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yeah
arguing is fine, as long as it isn't done with malice (imo).
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Prezbucky
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| Tue Aug 07, 2007 21:18 pm Spanish is catching up with English! |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: | I like the way you say "without being too insulting to George Bush" right before you insult him. Just stating facts, without being too insulting to you, Bruce, you sound like an idiot on this post.
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| Jamie (K) wrote: | Not to be too insulting to you, Bruce, you you're an oblivious moron.
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Just ask yourself the question "would I be OK with this abuse?", be it "justified" in this case or not.
In my opinion such comments reveal a lack of decency as well as soft skills.
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| How can I Learn British Englsih from Hindi... | Bruce writes about Jamie(K) and Georgie "baby" Bush |
