omissions in comparisons

[Torsten]

Hi,

Could you please take a look at the following sentence:

Hi response to my question for a rental was completely different from the other place.

Now, this sentence is easy to understand so it probably serves its purpose. However, shouldn't it read "His response to my question for a rental was completely different to the one I got at the other place."

Please let me know what you think.
Thanks,
Torsten
_________________
Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary

[Yankee]

Hi Torsten

Actually, the first half of the sentence has a questionable usage as well.

"His response to my question for a rental was completely different to (the one I got at) the other place."

In informal English, it would be pretty common to omit "the one I got at" in this sort of sentence. However, if you want to write more carefully or formally, it should be reworded.

Rather than saying "question for", it would be better to say "question about". (There are also other alternatives that would be better.)

Sticklers for correct grammar will generally tell you that you must write "different from". However, probably the most commonly used phrase in AmE is "different than" -- especially in informal English. You'll hardly ever hear "different to" in AmE. You might find this interesting: http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-dif1.htm
.
_________________
Amy
.
ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

[Alan]

Hi Torsten,

People still get steamed up about different to or different from - I would plump for 'for'. It's similar to the sort of debate that goes on about between 'It's me' as against 'It's I'. As for 'different than' - well that makes me wince but then I can't speak for the nation.

Alan
_________________
English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story In Order

[Torsten]

Hi Amy and Alan,

Thanks a lot for your answers. To me, "a question for a rental" also sounded odd but then I thought maybe "question" can mean "request". At any rate, it's very strange that such a sentence occurred in an American book written by Dale Carnegie. It has been sold more than 15 million times and apparently so far nobody has found that this sentence sounds strange. Maybe Dale Carnegie was granted the right to use his own style of grammar?
_________________
Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary

[Yankee]

Hi Torsten

I had also thought that broader context could possibly have had some influence on the use of 'for' rather than 'about' after the word 'question'. But, since you didn't provide any additional context, I told you that the usage was questionable and mentioned a standard collocation.

By the way, how many times do you think the grammar of that particular sentence has been discussed, and during all those (very improbable) grammar discussions, how do you know that nobody has ever taken issue with anything about the sentence? You know, I think there is a very large difference between "grammatically impeccable" and "sounding strange". Informal language in particular is often full of grammar "errors" and slip-ups without sounding the least bit strange.

I'm curious about the reason you changed the word 'from' to the word 'to'. Does/did 'from' sound wrong to you in the sentence? Have you heard 'different to' used frequently? By Brits?

@Alan
Well, I suppose it's a good thing you've never visited the US, then. You'd no doubt suffer endless fits of usage-related wincing.
_________________
Amy
.
ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

[lost_soul]

[Yankee]

Hi LS

I was by no means suggesting that grammar is unnecessary -- which seems to be what you somehow interpreted from my posts. I made some observations about the reality of what sounds strange and what doesn't, about informal vs formal language, about typical collocations.

Some grammar rules are far too prescriptive, however. For a very long time, it was considered grammatically incorrect to say something such as this:
A: I like summertime.
B: Me too.

"Technically" speaking, "I too" would be correct above, but in reality, you would sound very strange if you were to use this "grammatically correct" phrase in your everyday English. That's the reality.

This is one example of what I was talking about when I mentioned that grammatically "incorrect" sentences can sound completely natural. Alan mentioned the same thing. Saying "Me too" is completely natural and not at all strange.

You should also keep in mind that spoken English tends to have more "errors" in it simply because it is spontaneous. All kinds of things happen in spoken English that don't happen (or don't happen as frequently) in written English. Once something is out of your mouth, there is no opportunity to go back and erase any slip-ups. You can change the meaning of a spoken sentence simply with your tone of voice. You don't need to state the context explicitly if the context is clearly there to see when you're speaking. etc.

My earlier comment that "question for" was questionable usage reflected both grammar and typical usage. You can have "a request for something" and you can "ask for something", but it would be unusual to have a "question for a thing" (i.e. a thing cannot answer a question).

Torsten mentioned that it seemed strange that 'nobody had found the sentence strange' before. Well, I didn't say that I found the sentence strange. Torsten said that. I simply offered my comments about what I thought would be typical and grammatical. And the reason was simply that Torsten asked.
.
_________________
Amy
.
ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

[Yankee]

[Jamie (K)]

[Jamie (K)]

These incomplete comparisons were discussed in a book written decades ago (but still in print) called "Twice as Less". It was written by a teacher in the US who had a hunch that certain aspects of the syntax of black Americans' vernacular dialect (which not every black American speaks or can speak) was causing them problems understanding their school textbooks, and in performing other school tasks. She and some linguists studied the problem, and then they gave the kids who spoke this dialect intensive training in standard English.

One of the results was that the kids who'd received intensive standard English coaching had automatic improvements in their math scores. Part of the reason had to do with how kids formed comparative statements. Look:

Standard
The distance between Detroit and Chicago is the same as the distance between Detroit and Toronto.
The difference between 6 and 3 is the same as the difference between 6 and 9.
6 - 3 = 9 - 6

Informal dialect
The distance between Detroit and Chicago is the same as Toronto.
The difference between 6 and 3 is the same as 9.
6 - 3 = 9

[Yankee]

[Jamie (K)]

I think that "different than" must be more common out east there where people stand "on line".

[Yankee]

.
Oddly enough, I've only ever stood 'in line', but I do know people who prefer to stand 'on line'.
.
_________________
Amy
.
ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English