| look at it what happened | "Despite" or "Although" |
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Mon Aug 13, 2007 22:37 pm Is the test question correct? |
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Dear teachers,
I recently ran across a test question for Azeri students learning English. The question looks like as follows:
Make up a sentence
1. is very popular 2. and in many other countries 3. the famous English playwright 4. the name of 5. in Great Britain 6. both 7. George Bernard Shaw
A) 4,7,3,1,6,5,2 B) 6,5,2,1,7,4,3 C) 7,3,1,6,5,2,4 D) 4,3,1,5,2,7,6 E) 4,7,1,6,5,2,3
It seems that the best option is point A, which reads: “The name of George Bernard Shaw the famous English playwright is very popular both in Great Britain and in many other countries”. However, even this option does not sound OK to my ear. Do you think that this sentence is fine? What can be the closest best way for expressing this idea using the expressions provided on the question?
Thanks in advance
Zahir _________________ Learning is a sacred engagement. |
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Ahmadov I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 287 Location: Azerbaijan
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 19:11 pm Is the test question correct? |
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Hi Zahir
I agree with you on both counts: The best option is A, but the sentence is odd.
A couple of small changes would make it better: “The works of George Bernard Shaw, the famous English playwright, are very popular both in Great Britain and in many other countries.” . _________________ Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 7470 Location: Northeast US
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 21:40 pm Is the test question correct? |
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Thanks Amy, you are very helpful as always... _________________ Learning is a sacred engagement. |
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Ahmadov I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 287 Location: Azerbaijan
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Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:57 pm Is the test question correct? |
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Personally, I think the people who made up the test were thinking of a word like знакомый and getting the ideas of "familiar" or "well-known" mixed up with the idea of "popular" in English. This is common.
Yesterday someone had me try a business English test on the German T-Mobile site. The word usages they were testing were all correct, but the example sentences were full of all kinds of other mistaken usages, so they were giving terrible sentences that no one would say, but which still accurately tested various idioms and prepositions. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 4231 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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Wed Aug 15, 2007 15:38 pm Is the test question correct? |
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. That's interesting, Jamie. I bet that's exactly what happened. . _________________ Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 7470 Location: Northeast US
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Wed Aug 15, 2007 17:57 pm Is the test question correct? |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: | Personally, I think the people who made up the test were thinking of a word like знакомый and getting the ideas of "familiar" or "well-known" mixed up with the idea of "popular" in English. This is common.
| Interesting! Jamie and Amy, do you think that that sentence would be correct if the word "popular" was replaced with "familiar" or "well-known"? _________________ Learning is a sacred engagement. |
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Ahmadov I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 287 Location: Azerbaijan
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Wed Aug 15, 2007 18:07 pm Is the test question correct? |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: | Personally, I think the people who made up the test were thinking of a word like знакомый and getting the ideas of "familiar" or "well-known" mixed up with the idea of "popular" in English. This is common. . |
Hi, Jamie
I dont think one can use "знакомый" thinking of "popular". Lets take a few example:
1. Singer A is very popular in country B (you have to use "знаменитый, известный". "знакомый" does not work here) 2. Singer A seems familiar to me (you have to use "известный, знакомый". "знаменитый" does not work here)
So "знакомый" has the idea of "familiar" only "знаменитый" has the idea of "popular" only
BUT, "известный" has the idea of BOTH "familiar" AND "popular"
(Sorry that I didnt write those examples in Russian, I dont have a means of doing so right now...)
But I can relate to your idea of words getting mixed up. The problem is one should always think of a word-equivalent in their native language prior to thinking of the word in the "target" language. It's with experience and time that one gets rid of this "vicious practice" _________________ Alex
A native speaker of Russian
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lost_soul I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 1746 Location: South Park, Colorado, USA
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Wed Aug 15, 2007 18:09 pm Is the test question correct? |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: | | Yesterday someone had me try a business English test on the German T-Mobile site. The word usages they were testing were all correct, but the example sentences were full of all kinds of other mistaken usages, so they were giving terrible sentences that no one would say, but which still accurately tested various idioms and prepositions. |
Hi Jamie,
Do you happen to have the URL of that test? It would be very interesting to see what kind of business English test T-Mobile is offering on their German website. By the way, they could have asked somebody from the T-Mobile US division to assess the test. _________________ Test Of English for International Communication TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary |
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Torsten Site Admin

Joined: 25 Sep 2003 Posts: 6730 Location: EU
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:01 am Is the test question correct? |
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| lost_soul wrote: | | I dont think one can use "знакомый" thinking of "popular". |
That's right, you can't. But in many languages there's no clear distinction between words meaning "popular", "well-known" and "familiar", or else the semantic fields overlap in a different way, and people use the wrong equivalent. So when they want to say "popular", they wind up saying "known" or something similar. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 4231 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:06 am Is the test question correct? |
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| Torsten wrote: | | Do you happen to have the URL of that test? It would be very interesting to see what kind of business English test T-Mobile is offering on their German website. By the way, they could have asked somebody from the T-Mobile US division to assess the test. |
Here is the URL: http://www.t-online-business.de/c/12/02/51/66/12025166.html
Here is one part that I think is really bad:
| Quote: | | Sie wollen ein Unternehmen als Kunden gewinnen und erz?hlen von dem erfolgreichen Unternehmer, der Ihre Firma gegr?ndet hat. Wie ?bersetzen Sie das Wort Unternehmer? |
The test claims that "Unternehmer" should be translated as "player", but it's a completely inappropriate choice. It would mean that the founder of your company was a gambler who wasn't serious about what he was doing. The correct word would be "entrepreneur". |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 4231 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:21 am Is the test question correct? |
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| Ahmadov wrote: | | Jamie (K) wrote: | Personally, I think the people who made up the test were thinking of a word like знакомый and getting the ideas of "familiar" or "well-known" mixed up with the idea of "popular" in English. This is common.
| Interesting! Jamie and Amy, do you think that that sentence would be correct if the word "popular" was replaced with "familiar" or "well-known"? |
It would be perfectly correct. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 4231 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:43 am Is the test question correct? |
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Hi Jamie I couldn't help but chuckle at this one: "You tell Mr. Smith that you would like to schedule the cooperation."
. _________________ Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 7470 Location: Northeast US
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:09 am Is the test question correct? |
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| Yankee wrote: | I couldn't help but chuckle at this one: "You tell Mr. Smith that you would like to schedule the cooperation."
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Yeah! The English is quite messed up. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 4231 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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lost_soul I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 1746 Location: South Park, Colorado, USA
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 14:06 pm Is the test question correct? |
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"The cooperation" is a direct translation of the German "die Zusammenarbeit", but it sounds ridiculous in the English sentence. I'm not sure what we would say instead, because it's not really clear what the Germans meant to say.
Germans and Slavs often use the word "cooperation" wrongly, when they should use "collaboration" or some other word. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 4231 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| look at it what happened | "Despite" or "Although" |