|
|
|
Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
|
|
 #48 (permalink) Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:52 am present perfect tense |
|
|
&uot
| Yankee wrote: |
You can't possibly be trying to say that the simple past tense cannot be used to talk about something that occurred over a period of time in the past.  |
That's right. I'm not trying to say that.
| Yankee wrote: |
Are you trying to say that you would prefer this:
;I have known Egbert since we have studied for an MBA together."  |
No, I'm not saying that. The present perfect sounds terrible in that sentence, because "studied" represents a repeated, habitual action. In this case I'm telling you that the simple past in that sentence (the version that sounds good) does not necessarily indicate a single finished event, and could actually indicate a habitual action that spanned some longer period of time.
| Yankee wrote: |
Or have you simply changed over to a new topic?
 |
I've changed over to a new aspect of the "since clause". I think I've already established that people do use the present perfect in SOME of them to indicate a single, finished action, if they perceive that that single action has produced some kind of change that lasts until the present. They also sometimes use the present perfect in some "since" clauses to disambiguate it and show that the event happened just once, and was not a habit or something that was repeated. This use of the present perfect tense is not covered in the grammar books, but it's real and relatively common, and it's easy to find examples of its use that don't sound ungrammatical. I don't care that you didn't find anything in the British National Corpus.
What I'm doing now is countering your idea that a verb in the simple past in that "since" clause necessarily indicates a single, finished event. I gave the example, "I have known Egbert since we studied for an MBA together." because "studied" can indicate a habitual action that spans a period of time, not a one-time event, as you keep saying the simple past would indicate there. In many cases, it's simply not clear in sentences like that whether the verb in the simple past indicates a habitual event or a one-time event, even though in both cases the event would be finished and in the past.
"My cousin and I have been close since we shucked corn together as kids."
"Shucked" indicates a habitual, repeated action over time.
"I've been in love with her since we shared an office together."
"Shared" indicates a habitual, repeated action over time.
In both cases, the verb in the simple past, in the "since" clause, doesn't indicate a single, one-time event, but a repeated, habitual action occupying a longer span of time, over which the people's feelings developed.
This is why, at street level, people sometimes use the present perfect instead of the simple past:
"Since I did this, my computer hasn't crashed."
It's not clear whether "did" indicates a one-time action or a habitual one.
"Since I've done this, my computer hasn't crashed."
It's now clear that the "since" clause indicates a single, finished action at some unspecified time in the past.
Once again, I don't care what's in the British National Corpus. People really do this. |
|
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5334
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
 |
| #49 (permalink) Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:06 pm present perfect tense |
|
|
| OK, good, you were on a new topic. The word 'event' was yours, not mine. I couldn't imagine why you seemed to be disagreeing with something I hadn't said. |
|
Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
|
|
| #50 (permalink) Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:56 am present perfect tense |
|
|
| Yankee wrote: |
| OK, good, you were on a new topic. The word 'event' was yours, not mine. I couldn't imagine why you seemed to be disagreeing with something I hadn't said. |
I was just "adding a new dimension". 
You know I often veer off the subject. |
|
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5334
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
|
|
Sitifan
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 259
Location: Taiwan
|
|
| #52 (permalink) Sat Nov 15, 2008 21:20 pm present perfect tense |
|
|
since = from a point in time
since = for this reason
The Mother bird said to her chick, just let go and fly, let your natural instinct take over. This is called "music"
No natural music? Then you really need to learn the perfects and build the music into it yourself or you will be like a gun with bullets and no trigger !!! |
|
HamburgEnglish
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 276
|
|
| #53 (permalink) Sat Nov 15, 2008 22:02 pm present perfect tense |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I don't agree that the above sentence is correct. |
I'm afraid you'll have to do better than that, Sitifan. What is it specifically that makes you think that "ever since I met her" is not correct? I see nothing in the link you posted that suggests that it isn't correct.
However, I disagree with alper (in your link) that it is not possible to say "ever since 1992". That's nonsense. There is no problem saying things such as "ever since the 70s" or "ever since 2001", etc.
. |
|
Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
|
|
| #54 (permalink) Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:36 am present perfect tense |
|
|
1. I've been really happy ever since I met her.
2. I've never visited Arizona since I met her.
3. I've never visited Arizona ever since I met her.
#1 and #2 are acceptable, but #3 doesn't sound right.
Do you agree, Yankee?
_________________
Thank you very much for your reply. |
|
Sitifan
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 259
Location: Taiwan
|
|
| #55 (permalink) Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:44 am present perfect tense |
|
|
| I think 3 sounds right. It sounds perfect to me if you put "ever since I met her" at the beginning of the sentence. |
|
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5334
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
|
| #56 (permalink) Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:04 am present perfect tense |
|
|
1. A lot has happened ever since we graduated.
2. Steele has not visited Arizona ever since he sold his house last October.
3. Darla's been really happy ever since she started work.
Only the third one sounds right. Do you agree, Jamie?
_________________
Thank you very much for your reply. |
|
Sitifan
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 259
Location: Taiwan
|
|
| #57 (permalink) Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:14 am present perfect tense |
|
|
If you make small changes, everything sounds fine:
"A lot has been happening ever since we graduated."
"Ever since he sold his house last October, Steele has not visited Arizona." |
|
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5334
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
|
|
| What does "sticky" mean? (Sticky posts) | Article for particple phrases |
