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 Mon Oct 08, 2007 20:49 pm How to behave in America |
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[...]I was fishing for opinions in a careful way when I asked about “a dichotomy in American society. Would you say there is such a thing?”
In light of the issue's delicacy and preceding discussions, this was my attempt to avoid the impression that this thread was another bout of bashing American culture.
Quite the opposite. How should different cultures communicate if they can't voice or discuss differences? So when I referred to what my friend called "American dichotomy", I thought that this was a term that may be commonly used in America. It obviously isn't. The way he described it, it means as much as presenting an attitude deviating from the "inside" to the "outside". A bit like a father who publicly denounces domestic violence, but occasionally beats his children.[/quote]
| Jamie (K) wrote: | | As for that inscrutable expression "American dichotomy", it appears you're misusing the word "dichotomy" and really mean "hypocrisy". In regard to your example, I can say that beating one's wife is quite frowned upon in the US, so most American wife-beaters try to keep the practice secret. In many parts of Europe, wife beating is right out in the open, because everyone from the husbands all the way to the police think "the wife needs it once in a while". I have seen this in action. Your belief that hypocrisy is typically American exposes you as a bigot. |
Jamie,
I take it that the anonymous 'you' in “it appears you're misusing the word 'dichotomy' and really mean 'hypocrisy'” referred to me.
a) You're wrong. I meant dichotomy. And I quoted a guy from Boston. To me it sounded like an old saw. However, it was you who invented 'hypocrisy'.
b) My example was applied in a general and metaphorical way. It was not used in any relation to American practise. You chose to use it ambiguously to refer to places “dotted all over Europe”.
c) Since I never deployed any concept of 'hypocrisy' -- but you did -- everyone will find it easy to identify the bigot.
Your constant stickling blinds yourself, and your pluralisations blind others. You should have started a career in politics. People who turn and twist their arguments in factual disguise get into high places. But the weakness you expose in doing so could never get you into the driver's seat.
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Ralf
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| Tue Oct 09, 2007 18:14 pm How to behave in America |
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here's my view of the letter: it is a bit insulting. but it addresses and clarifies the problems.
i don't think i would feel comfortable with the letter if i were the recipient.
but i would consider the letter as a straightforward instruction which tells me about some of those "to do" and "not to do" things.
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underdog
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| Thu Oct 11, 2007 15:22 pm How to behave in America |
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| underdog wrote: | here's my view of the letter: it is a bit insulting. but it addresses and clarifies the problems.
i don't think i would feel comfortable with the letter if i were the recipient.
but i would consider the letter as a straightforward instruction which tells me about some of those "to do" and "not to do" things. |
Hi underdog,
I personally don't think the letter is insulting, maybe just a little bit patronising. Why do you think it is?
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| Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:43 am How to behave in America |
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| Jamie, I'm interested to know which country/ies in Europe? |
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1111166666
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| Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:37 am How to behave in America |
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These "formal" ethical rules (no swear words...) seem OK, but they do not work, actually. I do not know about high schools, but it was rather interesting to find out the range of bad words used by externally innocent people: school students, college students - both boys & girls... same thing with their ethical transformation during parties. do you understand what I mean? The beautiful academic environment completely changes to chaos when you go down to the basement level of the campus 
Well, I do not say it is good or bad - they work hard, they want to relax. hard. It is just strange.
And I remember there was a topic by JamieK, where he explained that "sucks" is considered an extreeeemely baaaad word. But I've caught it a couple of times used by professors on the lectures, postdocs and grad students during seminars. Seems not that bad, eh?
what's happening?
As for Ralf and the letters Your daughter received - it is surely better to be prepared and know what to expect in worst case, hence these mails. But in reality, people and overall situation here is not that bad!
If you are responsible and have certain selfcontrol, you will probably find a way to avoid complex situations or find a way out of one, so to not get into jail. If one is bad man in Germany - one is bad in America as well. If you're good in Germany - so you are in America. I have been to both countries, and really don't think there is such a difference between cultures that an innocent action from one side would lead to legal action from the other...
One should, though, always be advised, watch the situation, observe others, adapt and be ready to change yourself (a bit), try to change others (whooh! did I say that?) - all that preserving the perfect balance and remaining yourself - that's what makes you fun and good person. That's what distinguishes one from the army of Agent Smiths
Good Luck!
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aereal
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| Sat Oct 20, 2007 17:13 pm How to behave in America |
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| aereal wrote: | As for Ralf and the letters Your daughter received - it is surely better to be prepared and know what to expect in worst case, hence these mails. But in reality, people and overall situation here is not that bad![...]
Good Luck! |
The real American eagle is probably right. Thanks for your reply, but the girl in question is not my daughter. She's a friend's daughter, my plans for children are not yet in the pipeline  ... I know that Torsten's daughter has already gone to America, though. I'm sure she's having a good time, aye?!
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Ralf
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| Sun Oct 21, 2007 21:55 pm How to behave in America |
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Hi Ralf,
Yes our daughter is getting along greatly in the US and believe it or not -- she already speaks English very fluently, probably faster than me...
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Torsten
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| Tue Oct 23, 2007 15:40 pm How to behave in America |
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| aereal wrote: | And I remember there was a topic by JamieK, where he explained that "sucks" is considered an extreeeemely baaaad word. But I've caught it a couple of times used by professors on the lectures, postdocs and grad students during seminars. Seems not that bad, eh?
what's happening? |
I think my point was that "sucks" used in that way derives from several very obscene expressions. People who grew up hearing the expressions in their entirety usually find it disgusting when someone says something "sucks". Some younger people can't feel it, and there are other people, like the professor and grad students you mention, who know but probably don't care.
Just because some professors say something, it doesn't mean it's acceptable. I know of professors who get female students' cell phone numbers and call them continuously in hopes of having sex with them. (They usually choose foreign students, because they're the least likely to go to the university authorities when they feel threatened.) I can point to three or four profs that I know of who do this, but that doesn't make it acceptable behavior. Likewise, most colleges have a "student" or two who tries to recruit girls in the classes for prostitution or even coerce them into it, but the fact that it's common doesn't mean it's "not so bad". |
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Jamie (K)
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