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 #2 (permalink) Mon Oct 15, 2007 20:06 pm No German travel memoirs |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| I wonder why this is. My guess is that everything runs so logically and predictably in Germany that at the end of anyone's trip, there's no story to tell. |
Did you not find this predictability very exotic? It still occaisionally makes me smirk (or frown) when I miss a tram just because I'm a minute late.
Didn't Mark Twain or Paul Theroux write anything on Germany. As far as I know, Twain was surprised to find out that Germans laughed at comments of his that he didn't even think funny.
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 Ralf
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| #3 (permalink) Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:59 am No German travel memoirs |
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| Ralf wrote: |
| Did you not find this predictability very exotic? It still occaisionally makes me smirk (or frown) when I miss a tram just because I'm a minute late. |
Missing things for being a minute late didn't strike me as exotic. It can happen in the States too, even though things appear to run sloppier here than they do in Germany. What did strike me as exotic was the time a railroad conductor seemed to be insulted when I said within his earshot that the train would get to Nuremberg "around 7:00". He blurted out "EINS!" apparently finding it very important that I understand that the train would arrive not around 7:00, but at 7:01. As if I'd even notice.
| Ralf wrote: |
| Didn't Mark Twain or Paul Theroux write anything on Germany. As far as I know, Twain was surprised to find out that Germans laughed at comments of his that he didn't even think funny. |
I didn't notice anything by Paul Theroux, but Twain did write things about Germany in the 19th century, more or less. I'll have to look at those. I think they're in my PDA. Very little modern has been written. Some of the most interesting stories are the American press dispatches from US reporters who were in Nazi Germany during World War II. But that wasn't normal Germany. |
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Jamie (K)
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Stew.t.
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| #5 (permalink) Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:30 am No German travel memoirs |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| What did strike me as exotic was the time a railroad conductor seemed to be insulted when I said within his earshot that the train would get to Nuremberg "around 7:00". He blurted out "EINS!" apparently finding it very important that I understand that the train would arrive not around 7:00, but at 7:01. As if I'd even notice.. |
I can tell this chance encounter has made a lasting impression on you. It would sure make for an interesting anecdote in your own travel memoirs. You could incorporate this anecdote when reflecting on the German nature as such. It seems as if the Prussians have forever left their mark on the German mind. People can't help but having everything neat and tidy and clean and well timed. A bit like a mild Japanese form of neurotic orderliness without the perpetual smile.
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| #6 (permalink) Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:20 am No German travel memoirs |
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This looks interesting. Thanks. I get a kick out of some of the reviews it got on Amazon, like this one:
| Quote: |
EGGHEAD ON HOLIDAY
Michael Gorra, an American academic married to a Swiss academic, finds himself in Germany for a year. He's on sabbatical, so he doesn't have to go to work every day, but he needs something to show for his year off. This book is it. |
As an academic who is annoyed by academics, I find that really hilarious. The book sounds worth reading.
| stew.t. wrote: |
| Or there is the Russian Disco by Kaminer, which is more geared towards experiences of living in Germany and culture clash; |
Also interesting. Thanks, Stew. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #7 (permalink) Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:56 am No German travel memoirs |
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| Ralf wrote: |
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| What did strike me as exotic was the time a railroad conductor seemed to be insulted when I said within his earshot that the train would get to Nuremberg "around 7:00". He blurted out "EINS!" apparently finding it very important that I understand that the train would arrive not around 7:00, but at 7:01. As if I'd even notice.. |
I can tell this chance encounter has made a lasting impression on you. It would sure make for an interesting anecdote in your own travel memoirs. You could incorporate this anecdote when reflecting on the German nature as such. It seems as if the Prussians have forever left their mark on the German mind. People can't help but having everything neat and tidy and clean and well timed. A bit like a mild Japanese form of neurotic orderliness without the perpetual smile. |
I could actually write a German travel memoir that takes place in just one room at a German company in the United States:
Several consecutive Germans are upset by the fact that American washing machines have only "hot" and "cold" settings, and that they therefore can't know the precise temperature of the water their clothes are being swished around in. The rich German (the company CFO) goes so far as to find a store that sells German appliances and pays big money to buy a German washer so that he and his wife will know the precise water temperature. I don't notice any difference in the cleanliness of his clothes compared to the those of other people in the office.
A German accountant is very upset that employees in American stores greet him and ask if he needs help. This drives him mad, and in a conversation he says that if a customer can't find something in a store, "That's the customer's problem!" and that the staff should not be asking.
Another German accountant finds it insane that American employers are not required to provide long-term contracts and various high levels of expensive insurance that American employees don't think they need. When it's pointed out that all these expenses and requirements would put the employer out of business and put several unemployed people on the street, he says it's okay, because, "Anyone who cannot provide those things is stupid and doesn't deserve to be in business!"
I go buy the cheapest, 100% recycled paper the office supply store has. When I use it in lessons, the Germans chide me for not using recycled paper. I tell them it's 100% recycled, but they don't believe me. Apparently, if it's white and crisp, and doesn't look like Russian toilet paper, the Germans don't believe it's recycled.
Germans won't eat certain completely natural, completely healthy foods in the US, because they assume that all American food is "unhealthy". Meanwhile, they munch on all kinds of unnatural processed foods that come in German packages, because those are "healthy", even gummi bears, apparently. However, the gummi bears have to be brought from Germany, because the Haribo gummi bears sold in American stores "have something wrong with them", even though they're made and packaged in the same German factory as the ones they have sent over from Germany.
You can't do grammar lessons with some of them, because about 12% of Germans -- and only Germans -- go into freaked-out paralysis if they make even the tiniest, most normal mistake. You can see the look of shock, terror and self-loathing on their faces when they realize they've goofed a little. It's so traumatic that they'll use any trick to avoid grammar, even though they insist they need grammar. No other nation acts like that, in my experience, and I'm happy that it's only that smaller percentage. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #8 (permalink) Tue Oct 16, 2007 13:11 pm No German travel memoirs |
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Hi Jamie,
Interesting anecdotes there. I think that those situations tickled your sense of exotic experience, because those Germans responding to a strange environment reacted unpredictably. But what about your feelings of alienation when you were travelling Germany?
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Ralf
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| #9 (permalink) Tue Oct 16, 2007 13:45 pm No German travel memoirs |
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| Ralf wrote: |
| Interesting anecdotes there. I think that those situations tickled your sense of exotic experience, because those Germans responding to a strange environment reacted unpredictably. But what about your feelings of alienation when you were travelling Germany? |
Yes, it's easy to feel alienated in Germany, and it's even easy to feel alienated in a social group of Germans one knows relatively well. You don't feel that alienation among the French or the Czechs. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #10 (permalink) Tue Oct 16, 2007 17:11 pm No German travel memoirs |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Ralf wrote: |
| Interesting anecdotes there. I think that those situations tickled your sense of exotic experience, because those Germans responding to a strange environment reacted unpredictably. But what about your feelings of alienation when you were travelling Germany? |
Yes, it's easy to feel alienated in Germany, and it's even easy to feel alienated in a social group of Germans one knows relatively well. You don't feel that alienation among the French or the Czechs. |
Can you think of a way to commercialise this notion for the American market? I mean, there must be thousands of alienated travellers who could debauch in anecdotes or depictions of Germany (and Germans) with you.
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| #11 (permalink) Tue Oct 16, 2007 17:19 pm No German travel memoirs |
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| Ralf wrote: |
| Can you think of a way to commercialise this notion for the American market? I mean, there must be thousands of alienated travellers who could debauch in anecdotes or depictions of Germany (and Germans) with you. |
I don't think it's a good idea to aggravate Americans' already bad image of "cold" Germans by commercializing the idea that one feels alienated on trips to Germany. Maybe I could make some money at it, but the idea of doing so makes me kind of sick. Of course, I could go the other way and make the alienation an over-the-top satire. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #12 (permalink) Tue Oct 16, 2007 17:35 pm No German travel memoirs |
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Hi Jamie
You might be interested in these two books (if you can find them -- unfortunately, I think both are now out of print):
"Getting Along With The Germans"
"Your Swabian Neighbors"
I believe both were written by Bob Larson. |
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Yankee
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| #13 (permalink) Tue Oct 16, 2007 19:10 pm No German travel memoirs |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Ralf wrote: |
| Can you think of a way to commercialise this notion for the American market? I mean, there must be thousands of alienated travellers who could debauch in anecdotes or depictions of Germany (and Germans) with you. |
I don't think it's a good idea to aggravate Americans' already bad image of "cold" Germans by commercializing the idea that one feels alienated on trips to Germany. Maybe I could make some money at it, but the idea of doing so makes me kind of sick. Of course, I could go the other way and make the alienation an over-the-top satire. |
Okay, surely you don't need to devote a whole book on German oddities alone. But perhaps you could write a semi-fictional travel journal on cold Germans, arrogant Bitish, nationalistic Irish, ignorant Polish, racist Czech and strange French people. And superficial Spanyards, soft-headed mediterranians in general or wife-beating Romanians. It doesn't necessarily have to be a satire; you could simply evoke an image of strange and curious quaintness by telling your real anecdotes set in a certain timeframe.
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| #14 (permalink) Wed Oct 17, 2007 17:02 pm No German travel memoirs |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| You can't do grammar lessons with some of them, because about 12% of Germans -- and only Germans -- go into freaked-out paralysis if they make even the tiniest, most normal mistake. You can see the look of shock, terror and self-loathing on their faces when they realize they've goofed a little. It's so traumatic that they'll use any trick to avoid grammar, even though they insist they need grammar. No other nation acts like that, in my experience, and I'm happy that it's only that smaller percentage. |
Hi Jamie,
Have you somehow tried to get the Germans compare their attitudes (toward grammar and other issues) against their fellow students' positions? The advantage of teaching English in the US is you often have mixed groups while here in Germany you usually have only Germans in your class. What happens if you have the Germans do role play activities with students from other countries? How do they deal with grammar mistakes when they interact with other students?
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| #15 (permalink) Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:22 am No German travel memoirs |
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| Torsten wrote: |
| Have you somehow tried to get the Germans compare their attitudes (toward grammar and other issues) against their fellow students' positions? The advantage of teaching English in the US is you often have mixed groups while here in Germany you usually have only Germans in your class. What happens if you have the Germans do role play activities with students from other countries? How do they deal with grammar mistakes when they interact with other students? |
Almost all the Germans I teach are either in individual lessons or in pairs with other Germans, so I don't have any possibility of having the Germans interact with people from other nations.
Sometimes they do mention having heard the English of people from other countries. The Germans who are easygoing about their own mistakes don't have much opinion one way or another about the mistakes of other foreigners. However, that minority that is horrified by their own mistakes tends to have a very condescending attitude toward other foreigners and their mistakes, and it seems that the darker the foreigner's skin, the more condescending they are about his English.
This horror at making mistakes is usually part of a whole bundle of other complexes in the same person. Women who act like that also over-apologize, often even for things that aren't their fault, or even when nothing at all is wrong. The men who act like this are usually the type who drive their coworkers crazy with excessive perfectionism. Usually, no contractor will deal with them twice.
I've noticed likewise that when you get a student from Europe who is at intermediate level or above in English and still has pronunciation that is almost completely unintelligible, there is a whole predictable set of psychological complexes the person suffers from and that the teacher has to deal with. Ironically enough, I find that those particular Europeans and Arabs who have the most horribly unintelligible pronunciation are usually the most highly educated of the students. They're usually lawyers, professors (teachers and professors are the WORST students to teach), doctors or other people who had high-prestige professions in their home countries, so they've absorbed a lot of knowledge in their lives, but they are extremely hard-headed when they have to learn English. |
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Jamie (K)
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