The English labiodental fricatives

[Englishuser]

Hi,

As many of you may already know, English has two labiodental fricative phonemes: /f/ and /v/. These phonemes are articulated with the upper teeth against the lower lip while allowing air to escape the oral cavity in such a way that a hissing noice is produced. The difference between the two phonemes is that when one articulates the /v/-sound, the vocal folds tend to vibrate slightly i.e. the consonant takes on a partially voiced quality. I still think that English /v/ has slightly less friction than English /f/. What do you think? Do you bite your lip more when you say /f/ than when you say /v/?

EU

[NinaZara]

EU,

My teeth stay longer on my lower lip when I say 'f' and I don't bite my lip when I say 'v'.

Nin

[Englishuser]

Hi Nina,

Do you mean that you bite your lip when you say /f/, but not when you say /v/?

EU

[NinaZara]

Yes.

[Englishuser]

Hi,

In that case I think you may be making the labiodental approximant rather than the fricative. The approximant is used in Malay alongside the fricative. Do you have a problem with minimal pairs such as vest - west?

EU

[NinaZara]

I can say vest and west with no problem. Maybe I can give you example?

[Conchita]

The 'f' does seem to need more friction, but I don't think I bite my lower lip more when pronouncing it, at least not perceptibly so.

[Michauek]

One of my lecturers said 'once that it depends on someone's individual pronounciation and there is slight difference between someone's way of making some sounds; however, i don't bite my lower lip too, but my upper teeth touch it a little bit while producing (if not it wouldn't be call fricative, right?) "f" and "v" and saying english words, but when i use my native language it doesn't so much. Where is the point? :) Do I have croocked teeth? oh no, It can't beeeee !! ;)
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Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes. Oscar Wilde
Michal. I'm an english student :-)

[Jamie (K)]

I don't bite my lower lip at all when I make those sounds. The lip biting is just a device used when teaching people to make the sounds. When I make them, my lower lip is raised, but not retracted, and the friction occurs BEHIND the visible part of the lip, not on it.

It appears that I do push more air through when making [f], which may be a compensation for the fact that there is no voicing.

By the way, [v] and [f] are the most catastrophic possible replacements for [ð] and [θ] when foreigners don't want to learn to pronounce the latter two sounds. One man wanted to say, "My wife and I thought about getting a new car," but he really said, "My wife and I fought about getting a new car." When those people try to say "thirty", we often think they're saying "forty", and once people a whole class thought a Polish woman was talking about "free people" (i.e., a free society), when she was actually talking about three individuals.

The worst mistake I ever heard, though, was when a woman from Ukraine was finishing her thesis, and she told me she had to go before a committee of professors and defend her "feces".

Spanish speakers have their own problems, depending on where they come from. A professor from Mexico came to help my Italian professor at college to teach his Spanish class. He listened to the class and said, "You are all habing trouble wit your bowels!" which, of course, had the class laughing for about 10 minutes. A woman I know from Venezuela introduced herself, saying, "I am a translator, and I am also a trouble agent."

Then there are my Mexican students who talk about nouns and "bervs".

[Jamie (K)]

EnglishUser, what class are you taking right now?

[Michauek]

Yea, [ð] and [θ] are very confusing for foreigners. It's just so unnatural for me to put my tongue between my teeth etc etc (in my language we just don't have these sounds) ... but I use them as often as I can to be understood.

it resembles me one situation found on You Tube(use of "s" and "θ" ), enjoy ! :D



_________________
Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes. Oscar Wilde
Michal. I'm an english student :-)

[Ralf]

[Youscream_Icecream]

Michacek, I just want to say that the video is so EPIC!

I swear to God I was still lauging my a** off as I typed this message.

Where I come from, people have dofficulties pronouncing [ð], [θ]. The most common replacement for the two are either [t] or [d] or both altoegther. Native if my language also have difficulty pronouncing [v] and [f], as in my native language the two are simply replaceable by [f].
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