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 Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:32 am What do you think of hijab(headscarf)/veil? |
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I would think that the "oppressed" part comes from people believing that women don't have a choice to wear it or not, whether it be legally like in Iran or Saudi Arabia or thru cultural pressure.
Are there any rules that men have to wear something?
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Boke
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| Mon Nov 12, 2007 16:57 pm What do you think of hijab(headscarf)/veil? |
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| Boke wrote: | | Are there any rules that men have to wear something? |
Naturally yes, Boke. The degree is different though. It is said that men at least need to cover from the navel to their knees.
Which I still find weird because the last time I saw a friend without a shirt, I can't even look at his eyes. I am not saying men should cover more, it is just a feeling I experienced that I wonder why they required men to cover so little compared to women.
But some women argue that women can also be attracted to men's body as easily as men can be attracted to women's. That is why the degree of how much should be covered is debatable.
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NinaZara
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| Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:24 am What do you think of hijab(headscarf)/veil? |
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| NinaZara wrote: | Hello,
I have been thinking a lot about the veil lately, for some unknown reason. As a muslim, it is natural for me to have veils in my closet, I just don't wear them and I definitely have a personal and a very strong opinion on it but I am interested to know what others, especially non-muslims think about it.
I heard a lot of veil-wearing muslim women saying that the westerners think them as oppressed. Now, I have trouble believing this. Do you guys really think them oppressed? What made you think so? Was it just the fact that they are more covered or was the impression built upon some tales?
Tell me what you think, honestly.
Thanks,
Nina |
"Different strokes for different folks" Nina. JUst see it like that.
Greetings.
Winston |
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winston cepeda
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| Tue Nov 27, 2007 16:55 pm What do you think of hijab(headscarf)/veil? |
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When I see Muslim women wearing a veil, I do see it as a sign of oppression. The rule was created by men, and it started causing trouble for women almost as soon as it began. (Read your Muslim history on what happened to Mohammed's wife Aisha because she had to cover up. What a bizarre chain of events!)
The veil also makes me think that the men in charge of Islam must be stupid. For one thing, they apparently think that men are such animals that they can't control themselves when they see hair, that the hair will drive them insane with lust, and that the men won't be able to help themselves. Of course, they may now say that the veil is meant to express a woman's "modesty", but this is a later rationalization used to put a positive, "woman-friendly" spin on a misogynist practice.
In real life, though, normal men can control their lustful desires, and only a fetishist will be unable to control himself at the sight of hair or any other part of a woman's body.
Just as the sight of hair or skin don't necessarily make men lust, the veil doesn't necessarily stop them from lusting. I have seen this in my own classes. There will be a bunch of average college girls with nice hair and exposed skin sitting in the classroom, and in walks a beautiful, statuesque young lady in a veil and one of those long dresses that look like the overcoats in old cartoons. The men in the class go nuts over her just because her face and figure are so beautiful. The veil doesn't do any good, because the men will fill in the missing data with their imagination.
In a situation like that, the only way to stop men from lusting -- or just from healthily appreciating a beautiful woman -- is to completely cover her up in a burka. But dressing women up in burkas is REALLY perverted!
Besides that, many Muslim women choose their veils as a fashion item, with beautiful fabrics and colors. They become a type of nail polish for the head. |
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Jamie (K)
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| Thu Nov 29, 2007 13:14 pm What do you think of hijab(headscarf)/veil? |
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Jamie echoed my thoughts on the veil (almost) to the word. Only, I couldn't have expressed them half as well, of course.
I feel especially sad for the women who don't feel oppressed and are convinced they wear the veil of their own free will. When I say 'veil' I also mean any sign of gender inequality or of man's authority over women.
I also think that we shouldn't fool ourselves or be as arrogant and stupid as to think that Western women aren't also being oppressed, both consciously and subliminally.
Oppression has so many different faces, who could throw the first stone, anyway? |
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Conchita
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| Thu Nov 29, 2007 16:30 pm What do you think of hijab(headscarf)/veil? |
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| Conchita wrote: | I also think that we shouldn't fool ourselves or be as arrogant and stupid as to think that Western women aren't also being oppressed, both consciously and subliminally.
Oppression has so many different faces, who could throw the first stone, anyway? |
Conchita, are you really trying to assert that oppression of women in the Western countries is somehow equivalent to the degree and types of oppression of women in the Muslim world? And that Westerners have no right to judge the abuses of women perpetrated under Islam? What an outrageous claim!
Tell me what the Western equivalent to forced female genital mutilation is. What is the Western equivalent of honor killings of adulteresses or the imprisonment of women who were raped and cannot produce four male witnesses who saw it happen? In what Western country does a woman's testimony in court count as that of only half a person? I could go on, but you get the idea. What are the Western equivalents of that treatment?
Is there moral equivalence in everything to you? Is everybody equally guilty, even if their offenses are not equal? |
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Jamie (K)
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| Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:10 am What do you think of hijab(headscarf)/veil? |
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| Jamie, how you could interpret what I said the way you did is beyond me. Please read more carefully before uttering such ridiculous nonsense. |
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Conchita
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| Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:05 am What do you think of hijab(headscarf)/veil? |
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Conchita, I read what you wrote carefully -- three times. On the contrary, I think you were being ridiculous. You said:
| Conchita wrote: | I also think that we shouldn't fool ourselves or be as arrogant and stupid as to think that Western women aren't also being oppressed, both consciously and subliminally.
Oppression has so many different faces, who could throw the first stone, anyway? |
Saying that Westerners couldn't throw the first stone is tantamount to saying that the societies are morally equivalent in their treatment of women. You're implying that the West oppresses its women so much that its people have no right to judge the oppression in Islamic societies.
That's clearly what you were putting across, and it's silly. If that's not what it says, you tell me what it does say. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
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Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:30 am What do you think of hijab(headscarf)/veil? |
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| NinaZara wrote: | Hello,
I have been thinking a lot about the veil lately, for some unknown reason. As a muslim, it is natural for me to have veils in my closet, I just don't wear them and I definitely have a personal and a very strong opinion on it but I am interested to know what others, especially non-muslims think about it.
I heard a lot of veil-wearing muslim women saying that the westerners think them as oppressed. Now, I have trouble believing this. Do you guys really think them oppressed? What made you think so? Was it just the fact that they are more covered or was the impression built upon some tales?
Tell me what you think, honestly.
Thanks,
Nina |
In my opinion, Muslim women should be neither forced to wear veils nor forced not to wear them. To demand that women wear the veil is domineering, and to demand that they not wear the veil is domineering. From one perspective, entirely cloaking women is oppressive, and from another perspective, advertising naked women as meat is exploitative. It is perhaps best to allow Muslim women to make their own sovereign decision about whether or not to wear the veil.
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Rogue_Linguist
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| Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:40 am What do you think of hijab(headscarf)/veil? |
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| NinaZara wrote: | | Boke wrote: | | Are there any rules that men have to wear something? |
Naturally yes, Boke. The degree is different though. It is said that men at least need to cover from the navel to their knees.
Which I still find weird because the last time I saw a friend without a shirt, I can't even look at his eyes. I am not saying men should cover more, it is just a feeling I experienced that I wonder why they required men to cover so little compared to women.
But some women argue that women can also be attracted to men's body as easily as men can be attracted to women's. That is why the degree of how much should be covered is debatable. |
Well, I happen to agree with you wholeheartedly that a woman can be as attracted to a male body as a male can be attracted to a female body. Therefore, it seems unfair to have women cover parts of their bodies that are just as distracting on a male body.
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Rogue_Linguist
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| Wed Dec 26, 2007 18:44 pm What do you think of hijab(headscarf)/veil? |
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I believe that wearing hijabs shouldn't be obligatory but strictly voluntary.
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BuddhaGeo
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