Google
English-Test.net
Find penpals and make new friends today!
 
to invite; to speak loudly; to visit; to phone
discard
imagine
emphasize
call
TOEIC verbal test: Vocabulary Sentence: English Verbs Nouns Adjectives Answer
 
Username
Password
 Remember me? 
Search   Album   FAQ   Memberlist   Profile   Private messages   Register   Log in 

ing as noun or verb



 
ESL/EFL Worksheets and Handouts for Students Printable, photocopiable, clearly structured
Designed for teachers and individual learners
For use in a classroom, at home, on your PC
ESL Forum | English Vocabulary, Grammar and Idioms
Expression: "Sometimes we just have assess ourselves..." | accept my heartfelt?
Listening exercises
Message
Author
ing as noun or verb #1 (permalink) Fri Jan 11, 2008 22:35 pm   ing as noun or verb
 

Hello! Sorry, I’ve got one of those horrible grammar terminology questions to ask you. In the following sentence, I’m supposed to decide whether the section between brackets is a noun phrase or a clause:
With two white grandfathers, and having been brought up as a Methodist in a Roman Catholic community, Walcott is ideally placed to express the Caribbean’s confusions of cultural identity.
Apparently, it’s a noun phrase, but I can’t really see why, as the verb is declined as a present perfect passive, and so, to my understanding, is working as a verb. Could someone help me with this one, please?
Monica
I'm new here and I like it ;-)


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 28

ing as noun or verb #2 (permalink) Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:17 am   ing as noun or verb
 

We can help you, but which part is between brackets?
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5652
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA

English grammar exercises — improve your English knowledge and vocabulary skillsLearn how to explore English words! Subscribe to free email English courseAre you a native speaker of English? Then you should read this!How do you use the English Prepositions correctly?
ing as noun or verb #3 (permalink) Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:24 am   ing as noun or verb
 

Ooops! Sorry, I meant between commas
Monica
I'm new here and I like it ;-)


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 28

ing as noun or verb #4 (permalink) Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:41 am   ing as noun or verb
 

The phrase "having been brought up as a Methodist in a Roman Catholic community" is a noun phrase. More specifically, it's a gerund phrase. It is the object of "with", and only some kind of noun phrase can be the object of a preposition.

Let's put it after another preposition:

"He suffers from having been brought up as a Methodist in a Roman Catholic community."

You can replace that phrase with a pronoun:

"He suffers from it."
"He suffers from that."

Pronouns can generally only replace noun phrases.

Notice that you can also make put a possessive pronoun before it:

"The story is about his having been brought up as a Methodist in a Roman Catholic community."

Possessive pronouns can only be used for noun phrases, so this must be a noun phrase.
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5652
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA

ing as noun or verb #5 (permalink) Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:43 pm   ing as noun or verb
 

Yes, but in this example, we cannot replace the fragment between commas by "it":
With two white grandfathers, and it, Walcott is ideally placed to express the Caribbean’s confusions of cultural identity.
On the other hand, we can very easily transform it into a clause:
With two white grandfathers, and as he was brought up as a Methodist in a Roman Catholic community, Walcott is ideally placed to express the Caribbean’s confusions of cultural identity.
So I've got the feeling it's a clause, but I'm finding this incredibly confusing, especially as everybody I ask seems to have a different opinion regarding this question.
Monica
I'm new here and I like it ;-)


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 28

ing as noun or verb #6 (permalink) Sat Jan 12, 2008 13:21 pm   ing as noun or verb
 

It's not a clause, because "having" has no subject.

You can replace the phrase with "that", if the fact has been mentioned before. All you have to do is change the punctuation:

"With two white grandfathers -- and that -- Walcott is ideally placed to express the Caribbean’s confusions of cultural identity."
"With two white grandfathers -- plus that -- Walcott is ideally placed to express the Caribbean’s confusions of cultural identity."

You can replace the phrase with a clause, but you are using the clause as the object of the preposition "as", which means it is acting in the place of a noun phrase, and you're pairing up two prepositional phrases. Sometimes clauses act in the place of a noun phrase.

Also, your argument that it could be a clause because it can be transformed into a clause is bogus. You can turn grass into fertilizer, but that doesn't mean that grass is fertilizer. You'd be better off saying it can be REPLACED by a clause. You can often replace a gerund with an infinitive...

-- He likes skiing.
-- He likes to ski.

...but that doesn't mean a gerund is an infinitive.

It CANNOT be a clause, because:

1. Clauses can't be the object of a possessive pronoun.
2. Clauses have to have subjects, and this phrase doesn't.
3. It is one of the objects of the preposition "with" and usually (though there can be exceptions) only like items can be bound by a conjunction. "Two white grandfathers" is a noun phrase, and so is the phrase on the other side of "and".

You're finding it incredibly confusing because you're not sufficiently familiar with the structure and function of gerund phrases (i.e., verb phrases that act as noun phrases). If everybody you ask tells you something different, then a lot of the people you ask are also confused and wrong about it.

It's definitely a gerund phrase, and therefore it is acting in the function of a noun phrase.
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5652
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA

ing as noun or verb #7 (permalink) Sat Jan 12, 2008 14:11 pm   ing as noun or verb
 

Monica, part of the confusion is the fact that "with two white grandfathers" and that gerund phrase are not constituents of the main sentence, but are acting as adverbial modifiers to the sentence as a whole.
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5652
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA

ing as noun or verb #8 (permalink) Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:52 am   ing as noun or verb
 

sometimes we can not remember every instances, but to use it more often, we will be able to tell the difference
English_Leaner
New Member


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 1

Display posts from previous:   
Expression: "Sometimes we just have assess ourselves..." | accept my heartfelt?
ESL Forum | English Vocabulary, Grammar and Idioms ing as noun or verb All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1
Latest topics on English Forums
maths expressions in Englishthe name of one of themVerbs, how I don't love thee!aboard vs. on boardnews and develpmentPhrase "in Week 2 of the 2008"Hi, I have a question on word usage. Thanks in advancedifference between promotion video and promotional video?fires on all four cylinder?Make sentences that have the same meaning as the sentences below using suggestedabsolute scale?How can we...? (Usage of crack, crackle, click, creak, crunch, etc.)help me with this essay: about what happens in a daySOS! Super hard sentence (I suspect strongly that Jone was responsible)The rule of turning adjective (or verb) into Noun?Sentence correction: Country life gives him peace and quiet, which is why he...emphasis (pronunciation of the word 'chat')"in summer" or "in the summer": which one is correct?ing as noun or verb

Discover English-test.net
About GRE reading comprehensionCan I use "photos" in this case?In the future, games won't only be on "the" TV...Question: How to post the answer for questions on a Newsletter?Hello! I'm Joana from BulgariaGRE prep test: Word Vocabulary Games: Adjective Verb ListsGRE vocab test: Free word games: Online Adjectives Verbs GameMeaning of propulsive, manifold, bland, wan, seasoned, fecklessLearn to speak French: Pimsleur French, Comprehensive Course IIIBusiness English course: Daily Business ActivitiesVerb handouts: Confusing Words test (17)

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Subscribe to FREE email English course
First name E-mail