Is it just me or is China being strongly detested by people around the globe?

[jadelinna]

Everywhere I go, I hear people of many races discriminating against the Chinese population. Even in this forum, I see evidences proving that China isn't a very well-liked country.

In this forum one of the topics was: Hello, I am a newbie from China
lxguy 31 views Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:39 am

Compare the above with this: Greetings from South Korea!
christiene 162 views Thu Jan 31, 2008 13:46 pm

The difference is shocking. 162 views against 31.

I'm not trying to be racist nor putting anyone down. But many people, at least in my region, have a natural tendency of scrunching up their noses when someone mentions "China".

Chinese people are really being underlooked and misunderstood by Americans. Even as I talk online to internet game playmates, when I tell them that I am of Chinese origin, they instantly turn against me, saying nasty things about how uncivillized and useless Chinese people are.

Of course, my natural tendency is to defend my race and oppose their senseless attacks. But many of the times, it would not work.

Several of my friends said that they were ashamed of being a Chinese. One of my Cantonese friends said that she hated being a Chinese while a Taiwanese peer simply refused to be called a Chinese, instead he calls himself Taiwanese. I accept their rights, but it makes me very uncomfortable.

How did China ever get itself into such a handful situation, turning from prosperous and cultural into poor and misunderstood. Before, during the times of the emperors and empresses, how glorious the days were for China.

We had silk, jades, our beautiful and original music and dance, our world-famous calligraphy and before anyone forget, our original fireworks which was the starting point of the invention of deadly weapons, called guns. We contributed so much to the world, so why is everyone forgetting about us?

Cheap labour carries out through out our country. Families don't have enough to drink and eat. Many rich countries take advantage of our state to gain wealth, while labourers and their families suffer the ultimate consequences of losing their health and not gaining much money for daily living. I think Americans should really think over the products that they buy everyday. Rarely, do they ever see products not "Made in China".

As I look back, I just finished writing an essay. But that just emphasized my point, injustice is occurring and re-occurring everyday in our tiny world.

What do you think about this topic? Is this racism happening in your city or town? Feedbacks are greatly appreciated.

[aleaf]

Anyone who detests or discriminates against other people without really knowing the peoples is ignorant.

China is different from the majority of countries across the world from culture,ideology to social system, especially the latter one which isn't accepted by many countries.

To those who are ashamed of being Chinese , I really feel sorry for them. They lack of confidence in their nation of thousands of years magnificent history. Instead of complaining about the social systemevery day, as a chinese of duty and resposibility, why dosen't he/she do some practical stuff to improve the country? No matter China is good or bad, though i am proud of china which has lots of aspects to be perfected, he or she is born to be a Chinese.

By the way, I am meditating a question: Do we Chinese need to be praised by other countries to prove we are good? We chinese focus too much on comments of people from other countries. It seems if foreigners,especially ppl from some developed countries, don't praise us, we are not good. Don't we have our independent criterion?
_________________
Try to change youself before you try to change others.

[jadelinna]

Oh boldly spoken! I support you! You words are powerful.

As for your question, I will consider it carefully in the future when dealing with people who purposely try to speak ill of our country. But it is not easy to ignore, as much as we try to, almost everyday, even on chinese news stations, it is full of news and critiques from foreign countries. It's almost as if the existence and fate of China is based on one word that Americans say. Especially now that China is going to hold, for the first time, Olympic games. Aren't many poor BeiJing families struggling to move away from the capital city, so that these foreigners can have a "fun" time in China? Aren't we rounding up "Olympic pigs" just for the sake of the healths of foreigners? How unfair the world can be...

[Jamie (K)]

The resentment you're seeing against the Chinese, at least in the West, is not racism. If it were racism, then people from Taiwan, Korea and Japan would get similar treatment, but they don't.

Some of it may be caused by workers feeling that they've lost their jobs to cheaper Chinese labor. Most of it is because they fear increasing economic power being gained by a country that has almost no regard for business ethics or basic human rights. This is seen as a menace to countries like Japan, where people are free. Of course, most Chinese are not allowed to move about freely, so they haven't seen a free country and don't know what it's like. It's therefore hard to explain to them why people think of China as a menace.

Additionally, various disasters with manufactured products have given people in many countries the impression that the Chinese generally have very little regard for human life. Nobody paid much attention when they were starving or murdering their own political prisoners. But then people in Latin America started dying from using toothpaste imported from China that contained poisonous impurities, and European and American toy companies had to call back Chinese-made toys that had poisonous lead paint or whose design presented a deadly choking hazard. (These products violated the specifications of the companies that had ordered them, by the way, because the Chinese factories ignored them.) Incidents like this just reinforce the impression that people have had since the time of Mao, that China is a formerly great nation that is now uncivilized and dangerous.

I'm just explaining it to you here. I don't intend to debate the issue, because I have free access to information (including information from the Chinese government), and the Chinese can get only censored, government-approved information. This information gap makes any debate rather annoying.

[aleaf]

It is true many Beijing residents are forced or willing to move to ruraul areas for the sake of a better Olympics and some Olympic Stadiums.But what do you think the government should do? Time is limited. I mean the olympic are rapidly approaching. But there are are still many issues to be solved such as traffic, city arrangement,pollution and stadiums.Yeah, it is true some people feel resentful about being moved from the center of the city to outskirt. But i think China is rapidly developing and I bet in the near future such outskirts will the same prosperous as the city proper.In fact the place i am living was a deserted land but now it has turned into the second most popular and expensive residence. In fact from both air condition and traffic, it is far better than the properous center of the city.

so that these foreigners can have a "fun" time in China. Yeah I can't agree any more, and sometimes i really feel dissatified about that. But for a second thought, it is chinese culture. We chinese like "FACE"( Here means what the other people talk about you). Maybe we can also call it hospitality.
Don't you notice that we chinese always make all efforts to entertain guests. Take my family for example, my parents always treated my uncle a big meal when I was a child but in fact my family was very poor at that time. The problem is when the guests are foreigners, many chinese may feel very uncomfortable.
_________________
Try to change youself before you try to change others.

[Jamie (K)]

How much financial compensation are the people getting for the loss of their homes? In civilized countries people are not simply moved, but they receive compensation for their inconvenience and a fair market price for their property.

[aleaf]

Jamie maybe you don't intend to debate the issue but what you siad here has already invited a debate. Because you should know not everyone has the same opinion as you. As a chinese I am sure what you said were not totally true.
If it were racism, then people from Taiwan, Korea and Japan would get similar treatment, but they don't.
Yeah Jamie it is not racism. I call it bias. In many people's subconsciousness, people from a socialism society are headwashed because we have different ideology from yours and goods from China are of low quality beacause they are produced in a socialism country governed by vicious communist. In their opinion anything related to communist is doomed to be bad. The communist should be blamed for everything including the various disasters with manufactured products.
I admit the government should be partly resposible for the incidents, but on the other hand i think it is the producers who should bear the resposiblity.Don't relate it to politics or communist. Chinese products are very popular in china.

We have very little regard for human life?
Ridiculous,do you know KFC and Mcdonald's from USA have destoryed how many children's health? Why your govenment allow those food rubbish flow out of USA? Besides you know,America dumped many used dirty products including medicince, medical apparatus and instruments,clothes to China.Americans do value life of their OWN.

most Chinese are not allowed to move about freely, so they haven't seen a free country and don't know what it's like.

I have told you many times that we chinese are allowed to go to anywhere and they can move about as freely as air. Why don't you believe what I said. In fact many of my friends and relatives are abroad all over the world, and it doesn't seem that those free countires are perfect. When you say America is the most free country, have you considered whether such kinda democretic are accepted by everyone?

China is a formerly great nation that is now uncivilized and dangerous.How do you get such a radical conclusion? uncivilized&dangerous? Do you feel we chinese are living in hell? If so and the hell isn't so terrible as i expected.
Compared to the former dynasties, present China has made great progress on every aspect.

and the Chinese can get only censored, government-approved information. This information gap makes any debate rather annoying.
Don't you? Have you ever read something good about China in your media?Why only negative news about China has the opportunity of being the headline? Because China is a socialism country? In a sense, the information you get is also censored, government-approved .

An investigation, have foreigners here ever read positive news about present China?
_________________
Try to change youself before you try to change others.

[Jamie (K)]

Aleaf, we've been around and around about this before, and it always ends up that you don't understand what I'm talking about, because you get only filtered information.

I have already told you that our information on China in the US is not filtered, because we don't have government ministries that control the media. We get both positive and negative news about China, both optimistic and pessimistic. I have also told you that most of my early reading on China (and I did a lot of it!) was favorable to China, partly because it was written by American professors who sympathized with the Chinese communists, and partly because most of it came directly from China, from Chinese state-controlled publishing houses.

It may seem to someone with access to limited reporting that Westerners get only negative views of China, but that's not the case. The problem is that the negative things that happen in China, such as horrible human rights violations, are so bad that to the Western mind they overshadow any positive story that comes out. In fact, just one of those stories undoes the positive influence of 10 or 20 other stories.

Then, if we happen to bring these horrible events up to a person who is still in China, he will usually defend some government human rights violation. If we go back into history, he'll even defend genocides of millions of people. That just reinforces Westerners' belief that the basic Chinese mentality is morally lacking in regard to human life and basic human rights. It may not be totally true, but it's partly true, and this is the impression people get, and Chinese people reinforce it themselves.

Your remarks about KFC and McDonald's, in response to mine about poisonous products from China, just show your difficulties in making moral distinctions. To you, a Chinese child who got fat eating at McDonald's is equivalent to a Costa Rican man who died from using poisonous toothpaste from China. This is a sick comparison.

First, McDonald's and KFC don't force anyone to eat their food, and the companies themselves even say officially that their food should be eaten judiciously and not in excess. I and hundreds of millions of other people have eaten at those and other American fast food restaurants, but our health has not been ruined. Why? Because they are not a major part of our diet. According to McDonald's own statistics, their average customer eats there only twice a month. That's not enough to ruin anyone's health. And why are the parents of those Chinese children so indulgent that they took them into those restaurants so often and paid for so much food that wasn't good for them? It's a common scene in the US that a child screams about wanting to go to McDonald's, while his mother gets tough and says, "NO! You ate there last week!" There's some lesson in that. Why can't those Chinese parents do the same? Finally, the unhealthy Chinese child can restore his health by correct eating and proper exercise.

The people who used the Chinese toothpaste in Costa Rica can't restore their health, because they're dead! They must certainly have had the choice to buy a different brand of toothpaste, but on the other hand, there was certainly nothing on the label that warned the consumer that the toothpaste was poisonous. (Nor was there anything to warn that the toys were poisonous.) In fact, many Chinese products arrive in the Third World in counterfeit packages, so that the man who died may have thought he was buying some familiar, reliable Western or Latin American brand.

Your question, "Why your govenment allow those food rubbish flow out of USA?" just shows again that you don't understand free countries. You think that the government should be controlling everything. But anyway, since McDonald's and KFC are not unhealthy for people who eat them reasonably, there's no reason to stop those companies from establishing restaurants in other countries. (Both companies get their food from local producers, by the way, so if the food is unhealthy, the Chinese producers are also partly to blame.) There is PLENTY of reason to stop a Chinese company from exporting poisonous toothpaste or toys, but your government didn't care enough to do it.

[jadelinna]

Both companies get their food from local producers, by the way, so if the food is unhealthy, the Chinese producers are also partly to blame.
Do you mean that every kind of unhealthy food or product come from China? I don't think it's fair that you think all chinese products have to end up being poisonous.
then people in Latin America started dying from using toothpaste imported from China that contained poisonous impurities
Nothing can ever be perfect. Around 80% of imports to America come from China, I doubt everything is perfect. But I have confidence in chinese manufactures that at least 50% must be healthy and of good quality. That still totals up to 40% of all imports. It is not fair to put the blame on chinese people, at least not the good ones.

[Jamie (K)]

[aleaf]

it always ends up that you don't understand what I'm talking about
Why do you arbitrally think I don't understand what you said? I do.I just don't believe everything reported in your media just the same as you don't believe what in our media. Understand?

I have also told you that most of my early reading on China (and I did a lot of it!) was favorable to China, partly because it was written by American professors who sympathized with the Chinese communists, and partly because most of it came directly from China, from Chinese state-controlled publishing houses.
Say here you said you did read some books favorable to China,but let's see what kinda attribute you used - who sympathized with the Chinese communists,partly because most of it came directly from China, from Chinese state-controlled publishing houses.
In your subconsciousness, you don't believe them at all. So in this sense, when you comment on China, you have put on you colorful glasses.Why don't you believe what they wrote was a true China?

The problem is that the negative things that happen in China, such as horrible human rights violations,
The case is terrible /negative incidents happening in every country. But when something happening in China, it is magnified.

First, McDonald's and KFC don't force anyone to eat their food,

Have we chinese producers forced any consumer to buy things made in China?

And why are the parents of those Chinese children so indulgent that they took them into those restaurants so often and paid for so much food that wasn't good for them?

Do you think every chinese parent knows the disadvantage of junk food without being warned? How could children be immune to those attractive commercials.

Your question, "Why your govenment allow those food rubbish flow out of USA?" just shows again that you don't understand free countries. You think that the government should be controlling everything. But anyway, since McDonald's and KFC are not unhealthy for people who eat them reasonably, there's no reason to stop those companies from establishing restaurants in other countries. (Both companies get their food from local producers, by the way, so if the food is unhealthy, the Chinese producers are also partly to blame.) There is PLENTY of reason to stop a Chinese company from exporting poisonous toothpaste or toys, but your government didn't care enough to do it.

Have the toothpaste/toys killed every consumer using it? Isn't it just an exception?

It is not I who think the government should control everything. It is you. Because as far as the opinion on products made in china is concerned, it is you that mentioned the words CHINESE GOVERMENT again and again.Just as I have said, it isn't the government who should totally be responsible for the products exported, even if the government is controlled by communist.

All in all Jamie, what you said impressed me was that you could always dig excauses to patiently explain American stuff without mentioning your government, but blame any thing bad happening in China on Chinese communist.
_________________
Try to change youself before you try to change others.

[aleaf]

Besides plz rememer there is a saying "You get what you pay for." and i hope the incidents can force some chinese to improvie their products.
_________________
Try to change youself before you try to change others.

[Jamie (K)]

[aleaf]

You still don't understand. It's not arbitrary. I know this from experience debating with you, because I say something, and you come back with a completely garbled interpretation due to a lack of information or the lower value you put on human life.
you say i come back with a completely garbled interpretation due to a lack of information or the lower value you put on human life? I know many news about china like we persecute somebody but the problem is how do you the news is reliable? Where did you get the sources? Why don't you want to listen to the explaination of ours? Now the problem you don't really understand is, in our point of view, the western media magnified negative things in China. They are not objective. They l=blame everything to communist and the social system. But if the same thing happening in other countries, it is the government who are criticized.SEE?

You're wrong. I absolutely believed what I read, but later information and personal experience in communist countries made me see all the holes in it.

Ok what did you see in your own eyes? personal experience in communist countries , do you mean you visited China here before and know the feelings of common chinese?

There you go! You just don't understand! If a product disaster kills 100 people, or even 50, or even 20, or even 2, you think that's not a problem. To people in Western countries, where everyone is used to food, toothpaste, toys and tires that kill NO ONE, this shows an outrageous disregard for human safety and human life! Someone like you, however, sees it as positive, because most people didn't die. People in the developed world think this is a sick mentality.

Even only one consumer was killed, i will think it is terrible and unforgiveable and the producer should be punished. So I don't have any sick mentality. It is just you who think we don't care about that.

But anyway, you're still missing the original point, which is that there is no moral equivalency between a child who's gotten fat at McDonald's and a man who has been killed by contaminated toothpaste.

Really? AHA!In my opinion they are the same. maybe those junk food won't immediately kill any one, but in the long run, it may be more harmful. Who knows?


you think that's not a problem.[ /b]
Say jamie that is reason why i say your are very arbitary. How did you know I din't think it was a problem? in fact I think it is a very serious problem and I hate those producers and firmly belive they should be sent to court. And I guess the relevant people have got what they deserved. But why you are inclined to link it to the politics?

Again all of we chinese agree those producers be severly punished.

[b]The Chinese producers don't directly force anyone to buy Chinese products, but Americans today are nonetheless forced to buy them or are tricked into buying them. This has happened for two reasons:
Thanks for your explaination and again I hate what those producers do.

See? There's that lack of comprehension again. As a Chinese you appear to think that as long as only a few people die from a poisoned product, then it's okay.
You totally misunderstood what I said. I just wanna tell you those incidents are just exceptions. It is not the government should be wholly responsible for it.

In the civilized world, we're not used to ANY people dying from products like that, so even ONE death is a scandal.
Here the same in China, as long as it is confirmed.

But In the civilized world and you approval your troops to kill innocent people of other countries in the name of human right and then just called those tragedies incidents and feel SORRY for that. In my point they are murders.Last time i just overheard a news like several white students beat a black student but they just got far slighter punishment compared to the punishment several black students beating a white students got. I can gave you many examples of colore-skinned people get discriminations and struggle to get their rights.
_________________
Try to change youself before you try to change others.

[jadelinna]

This is why some companies in Europe and America have found they can improve their sales just by printing on their labels that their products are NOT made in China.
wow, this is truly amazing. No wonder bias exist for chinese people. All the good/healthy products produced by chinese ppl are replaced by credits to other countries. This leaves all the "unhealthy" products to the chinese. Americans sure can be clever.

To people in Western countries, where everyone is used to food, toothpaste, toys and tires that kill NO ONE, this shows an outrageous disregard for human safety and human life!
You talk to me about disregard for human safety and life?! This is insanity! I'm sure chinese ppl value life as much as americans, if not even more. If it weren't for this reason, why would so many chinese ppl fight their hardest to earn unfair compensations from americans? Many men of starving families work for a few dollars a day in American jeans manufacturers in order to feed their family. Their whole body turns blue from the polluted air within the factory building. As much as I'm concerned, chinese people are dying because they are working for americans who only care about their own wellbeing.

Are you telling me that Chinese schools and the Chinese media don't educate people in basic nutrition? People don't know that too much fat and too much sugar are bad for them? This sounds unbelievable to me. If it's true, then China's got a real problem that it caused by itself.
You don't understand china's situation at all. Who has time for nutrition when most of the population don't even get ENOUGH food and when most ppl don't even get education. The problem is not caused by itself, it's caused by other countries taking advantage of the labourers.

In the civilized world, we're not used to ANY people dying from products like that, so even ONE death is a scandal.
Civilized. What a powerful word to use here. As much as I'm concerned, civillized ppl usually have a high sense of pride and enjoy stepping on other ppl in order to get benefits for themselves. Civillized. What you mean by this is that all chinese people are uncivillized, filthy, worthless cheapos that don't deserve the right to live and that their life is only worth doing cheap labour for civillized ppl. Chinese ppl are just inhumane existences that wish for everyone to perish and hope for everyone to die early? Amen.

That is so not true. Chinese ppl are human, one of the most populated race on earth, we have lived for thousands of years in seclusion from the western world, away from discrimination and fights for imperialism, until the "outside world" disturbed us. We proved ourselves to be very capable of being "civillized" and in fact established one of the most structured system of government and culture until we got "disturbed". We are a young nation in terms of getting involved with world affairs and being taken advantage of by the outside world. Please don't assume and conclude that we are devils who only produce things to poison people.