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 #2 (permalink) Sat Feb 09, 2008 23:42 pm descriptive grammar: phonology |
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| Phonology is a huge subject area. Can you narrow down what you want to know about phonology, so that I can help you better? |
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Jamie (K)
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| #3 (permalink) Sun Feb 10, 2008 18:09 pm descriptive grammar: phonology |
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Ok. I want to focus on the descriptive part. I need some sources connected with phonostylistic processes and transcription and allophonic transcription. Moreover I need some spectogram analysis showing the processes while speaking and producing sounds.
You have no idea how terribly it sounds for me ;)
thx for answering.
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Michal. I'm an english student :-) |
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Michauek
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Jamie (K)
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| #5 (permalink) Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:20 am descriptive grammar: phonology |
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Thx. The most important thing I'm looking for is Vowel Chart description. I'm totally confused with its description. I don't get it why some vowels take Mid-High or Low position as described there.
http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/linguistics/russell/138/sec5/vow-ipa.gif
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Michal. I'm an english student :-) |
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Michauek
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| #6 (permalink) Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:42 pm descriptive grammar: phonology |
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When I was first learning phonology, I had no trouble understanding why the consonants had the descriptions they did, but in the beginning I couldn't understand the vowel positions. Eventually I realized that I should just memorize their positions first, and then later I'd be able to feel their positions. I did that, and it worked. |
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Jamie (K)
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Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #7 (permalink) Tue Feb 12, 2008 16:44 pm descriptive grammar: phonology |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
When I was first learning phonology, I had no trouble understanding why the consonants had the descriptions they did, but in the beginning I couldn't understand the vowel positions. Eventually I realized that I should just memorize their positions first, and then later I'd be able to feel their positions. I did that, and it worked. |
Learning this Vowel Chart description is also my trouble when studying English.
Thank Jamie for your advice |
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 Ann Nguyen
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Location: Vietnam
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| #8 (permalink) Tue Feb 12, 2008 21:44 pm descriptive grammar: phonology |
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Vowel chart is called by me "the devil chart" :]
Yea, I didn't pass my exam. I'm going to retake it on Friday (please keep you fingers crossed !!!)
I don't get it why we describe e.g. "ash" for Mid-low position while it is situdated in MEDIUM position :|
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Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes. Oscar Wilde
Michal. I'm an english student :-) |
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Michauek
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| #9 (permalink) Tue Feb 12, 2008 22:38 pm descriptive grammar: phonology |
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| michauek wrote: |
| I don't get it why we describe e.g. "ash" for Mid-low position while it is situdated in MEDIUM position :| |
AHA! I knew this was your problem! You have a Polish accent, so you think that /æ/ is in mid position, but it's not! The front of the tongue really is in low position. I'll bet that when you say "ash", I will hear [ɛʃ] instead of [æʃ].
You probably also have a problem pronouncing the difference between "piece" and "piss". |
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Jamie (K)
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #10 (permalink) Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:19 pm descriptive grammar: phonology |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| michauek wrote: |
| I don't get it why we describe e.g. "ash" for Mid-low position while it is situdated in MEDIUM position :| |
AHA! I knew this was your problem! You have a Polish accent, so you think that /æ/ is in mid position, but it's not! The front of the tongue really is in low position. I'll bet that when you say "ash", I will hear [ɛʃ] instead of [æʃ].
You probably also have a problem pronouncing the difference between "piece" and "piss". |
Many polish speakers have problem with this pronounciation, but that's not the point. It's the matter of description of a particular vowel (why mid-low "ash" if it is situated in LOW position im the Vowel Chart) and should we describe it (according to IPA) as Mid-high, mid-low etc. or Close, Half- Close, Open etc ??
http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=84364737de5.jpg
thx
btw, I recorded my pronounciation of "ash" for you. If you could check it and tell me if it is ok, I would be glad.
http://download.yousendit.com/3D4CF4E92C041B1F
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Michal. I'm an english student :-) |
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Michauek
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| #11 (permalink) Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:56 pm descriptive grammar: phonology |
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| michauek wrote: |
| Many polish speakers have problem with this pronounciation, but that's not the point. It's the matter of description of a particular vowel (why mid-low "ash" if it is situated in LOW position im the Vowel Chart) and should we describe it (according to IPA) as Mid-high, mid-low etc. or Close, Half- Close, Open etc ?? |
I have no idea, because in my phonetics and phonology classes we never called it anything but "low front". We never talked about it being "mid low front". In that case, would it have to be "mid low front" in contrast with some other sound that's "high low front" or "low low front", but there aren't any sounds like that! :shock: And I had a LOT of phonology, to the point where I'm considered a "phonologist".
You pronounced all the example words quite correctly, but you pronounced the word "as" wrong. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #12 (permalink) Wed Feb 13, 2008 14:22 pm descriptive grammar: phonology |
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Our lecturer calls it in this way (mid-low front etc.) on our Descriptive Grammar classes. I don't have an opportunity to ask her why it is so, but if I meet her, I'll ask about it.
I assume that "as" should be pronounced with "ash" as well. I forgot about it :]
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Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes. Oscar Wilde
Michal. I'm an english student :-) |
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Michauek
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| #13 (permalink) Wed Feb 13, 2008 15:08 pm descriptive grammar: phonology |
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| michauek wrote: |
| Our lecturer calls it in this way (mid-low front etc.) on our Descriptive Grammar classes. I don't have an opportunity to ask her why it is so, but if I meet her, I'll ask about it. |
As her to contrast it with "high-low front" and "low-low front" sounds. I'd be interested to know what her mouth produces. My bet is that she can't produce any contrasting sounds that fit those descriptions.
People who study English in some non-English-speaking countries have to learn some pretty wild things that don't make sense to native speakers. When I lived in Europe, a lady I knew who was working on her master's in English in Prague was having trouble with an assignment in which she was required to explain the differences in nuance among lists of about five or six "synonyms". She asked me to help her, but I couldn't, because it made no sense. Most of the "synonyms" weren't synonyms. It was as if a psychotic had written the assignment. |
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Jamie (K)
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| on the left vs to the left | Usage of "Doing well" |
