|
|
 Sun Mar 09, 2008 20:37 pm Usage of "Who all" |
|
|
| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | Yes. I have also had to deal quite a bit with that Nigerian English, which is partly a pidgin or creole language. |
Well, you're at least good for a laugh, Jamie. Go learn about Nigerian English. |
I've studied about it, and it comes to me on its own two legs, so I get to see it in real life. I love those statements like, "A won go chop," or, "Meku no pafuka mai bag." Of course, you would say those are not incorrect English in Nigeria, so in your opinion they should be accepted everywhere.
| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | However, they will still bogusly claim that English is their first language, not because it really is, but because they think of their African language as "not a language". |
please go learn about Nigeria. You're embarrassing yourself with your silly comments. |
Your trained inability to make judgments about the appropriateness of a given language variety for various social and professional contexts is more embarrassing than you realize. |
|
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
|
| Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:40 am Usage of "Who all" |
|
|
| Quote: | | Your trained inability to make judgments about the appropriateness of a given language variety for various social and professional contexts is more embarrassing than you realize. |
As far as English is concerned, appropriateness is open to debate - unless you've formed your own Royal Academy of English, that is. Have you?
BTW, would you say that this is incorrect English?
Did you have dinner yet?
Once more:
"Who all are coming to the party?"
"Who all want to come to movies with me?"
are correct in Indian English. Nuff said.
If one wants to do extended business with/in India, which many do these days, why not learn a little Indian English? Don't be lazy. |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3822
|
 |
| Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:13 pm Usage of "Who all" |
|
|
NB
"Choosing the appropriate functional style and switching freely from one to another is done automatically by native speakers on the basis of complex psychological and social clues that are part of cultural and linguistic experience. Foreign learners are often unable to perform or even comprehend these switches because their level of acquired English is functionally flat. ESL teachers should be ready to offer explicit advice and concrete examples about the global, regional, social, and situational dimensions of English, and plan strategies and design exercises directing students to a broader understanding of this diverse language."
http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICDocs/data/ericdocs2sql/content_storage_01/0000019b/80/2e/de/ae.pdf |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3822
|
|
| Mon Mar 10, 2008 14:29 pm Usage of "Who all" |
|
|
| Molly wrote: | | "Choosing the appropriate functional style and switching freely from one to another is done automatically by native speakers on the basis of complex psychological and social clues that are part of cultural and linguistic experience. Foreign learners are often unable to perform or even comprehend these switches because their level of acquired English is functionally flat." |
There you go! You're making my point for me!
Indian speakers are foreign learners of English -- usually taught English by foreign learners, as well -- and for most of them their acquired level of English is functionally flat. Few of them can code switch from "Indian English" to another form (you're asking me to do what these Indian speakers generally cannot, by the way), and most of them can't "even comprehend these switches". I see them daily. If they were able to "choose the appropriate functional style" and "switch freely from one to another", they could keep themselves out of ESL class and spend their valuable time in regular college courses. However, they can't do either.
Now that you've made my point for me, I'm done with this discussion unless some other person chimes in. You've spent a lot of time "teaching" me elementary concepts of sociolinguistics as if I couldn't possibly have heard of them, even though I learned them many times over years ago, and even had to teach them for a few years. These concepts are useful in ridding people of some of their prejudices based on language, but they are frequently dysfunctional in the academic and working worlds. |
|
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
|
| Mon Mar 10, 2008 15:17 pm Usage of "Who all" |
|
|
Hi Molly and Jamie,
I've been following your recent discussion which I find highly interesting. I think that the better you master you a language the easier it is for you to achieve your goals. Now, the big question is which of the many 'Englishes' should you learn? My personal answer to that question is rather simple: I concentrate on learning from those people I want to emulate and be like and that's what most people would do. If I wanted to do business in Nigeria or India I would look for people who have a similar value system like mine and it's very likely that they would speak a similar version of English like mine.
I think that are more young people from India who want to study in the US than vice versa. All those young Indians are preparing for standardized US American exams such as the TOEFL, the GRE, SAT or GMAT. Once they pass the TOEFL and enroll in a US university it's very likely that get more exposure to standard American English as it is spoken at academic institutions than to Indian English. Once they finish their university programs and apply for a job at an international company, it's very likely that the language spoken at that company is standard American English simply because the vast majority of international companies are American as are the vast majority of any international organizations -- profit or non-profit, political or commercial. English is the means of international communication not because it's the most beautiful language in the world but because most of the innovation in the fields of science, economy and politics comes from countries where English is the native language.
_________________
Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary |
|
Torsten
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 7398
Location: EU
|
|
| Mon Mar 10, 2008 19:38 pm Usage of "Who all" |
|
|
| Quote: | | You've spent a lot of time "teaching" me elementary concepts of sociolinguistics as if I couldn't possibly have heard of them, even though I learned them many times over years ago, and even had to teach them for a few years. |
LOL! As I said, Jamie, you're at least good for a laugh.
Onward... |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3822
|
|
| Mon Mar 10, 2008 19:41 pm Usage of "Who all" |
|
|
| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | You've spent a lot of time "teaching" me elementary concepts of sociolinguistics as if I couldn't possibly have heard of them, even though I learned them many times over years ago, and even had to teach them for a few years. |
LOL! As I said, Jamie, you're at least good for a laugh. |
I don't think you realize how funny you actually are. Maybe you'll realize it in several years. |
|
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
|
| Mon Mar 10, 2008 19:42 pm Usage of "Who all" |
|
|
| That's fine, Torsten, but what would be your answer to the thread question? |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3822
|
|
| Mon Mar 10, 2008 20:45 pm Usage of "Who all" |
|
|
Jamie already answered the question in his first post in this thread.
_________________
Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary |
|
Torsten
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 7398
Location: EU
|
|
| Mon Mar 10, 2008 22:13 pm Usage of "Who all" |
|
|
| You believe it is incorrect in Indian English? |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3822
|
|
| Mon Mar 10, 2008 22:20 pm Usage of "Who all" |
|
|
I don't think that this is the important issue here.
_________________
Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary |
|
Torsten
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 7398
Location: EU
|
|
| Mon Mar 10, 2008 23:58 pm Usage of "Who all" |
|
|
| Torsten wrote: | | I don't think that this is the important issue here. |
It was the question.
Reminder,
| Quote: | I heard this expression "Who all" being used in Indian English a lot.
For example, please look at the sentences below
"Who all are coming to the party?"
"Who all want to come to movies with me?"
Is such a usage correct? Please clarify. |
If someone asks me whether "Please do the needful" (as in "Could you help me with this?") is correct when used by Indian English speakers I don't answer by saying "Well, it's not correct, or it's nonstandard, in American or British English", now do I? Such an answer wouldn't make sense, now would it? It'd be irrelevent, wouldn't it now?
| Quote: | | If I wanted to do business in Nigeria or India I would look for people who have a similar value system like mine and it's very likely that they would speak a similar version of English like mine. |
And what would you do if someone told you that your use of "similar... like mine", there, was incorrect, or at least nonstandard'? |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3822
|
|
| Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:06 pm Usage of "Who all" |
|
|
<Foreign learners are often unable to perform or even comprehend these switches because their level of acquired English is functionally flat.">
| Quote: | | People in India can talk any way they want. They can replace every form of tag question with a single "is it?" if they want. They can change the past tense of "go" from "went" to "was go" if they want. They can use such deviant pronunciation that no native speaker can understand them, if they want. They can do all kinds of things to the English language in India if they want to, but if their goal is clear communication in an international context, then they have to drop all those eccentricities and adhere to the general standard. |
Which could leave the rest of us, i.e. non-Indians, more functionally flat, right? |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3822
|
|
| Tue Mar 11, 2008 13:31 pm Usage of "Who all" |
|
|
| Molly wrote: | | And what would you do if someone told you that your use of "similar... like mine", there, was incorrect, or at least nonstandard'? |
Instead of trying to convince others that this correct in "German English" I would admit that 'similar to mine' sounds much better. The next time I would write 'similar to mine' rather than 'similar like mine'.
_________________
Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary |
|
Torsten
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 7398
Location: EU
|
|
|
| Is this a natural english writing? (For this problem, I won't put more effort...) | Ballot vs vote |
