Google
English-Test.net
Find penpals and make new friends today!
 
voting, electing; counting of votes; number of votes; referendum
diversification
poll
empty
occasion
full quiz correct answer
 
Username
Password
 Remember me? 
Search   Album   FAQ   Memberlist   Profile   Private messages   Register   Log in 

How do you define a native speaker?


Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11  Next
 
ESL/EFL Worksheets and Handouts for Students Printable, photocopiable, clearly structured
Designed for teachers and individual learners
For use in a classroom, at home, on your PC
ESL Forum | What do you want to talk about?
Some truth about the riots in London | Again: Things they wish they hadn't said
listening exercisestell a friend
Message
Author
How do you define a native speaker? #1 (permalink) Mon Mar 10, 2008 23:36 pm   How do you define a native speaker?
 

How do you define a native speaker?
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

Native #2 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 0:22 am   Native
 

A native speaker is somebody who is fully acquainted with the language he has learned as his first language. And there are bilingual speakers who learn more than one language at the same time. Usually, the language of the speaker's mother (mother tongue) is considered his native language. However, there are some speakers whose native language abilities of the second language turn out to be better than what he has acquired on his mother's lap.

And then there are users of the English language with a native speaker-like performance. But those speakers have stopped contributing to this forum :shock:
_________________
Test of English as a Foreign Language
TOEFL Preparation & TOEFL Vocabulary
Learn more: How to Become an English Teacher
Ralf
Language Coach
Ralf Breheny

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 1564
Location: EU (Ireland and Germany)

Do you know how to use the relative pronoun?English grammar exercises — improve your English knowledge and vocabulary skillsAre you a native speaker of English? Then you should read this!Read these English anecdotes and maybe smile today? Subscribe to free email English course
Native #3 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:51 am   Native
 

Ralf wrote:
Molly wrote:
How do you define a native speaker?

A native speaker is somebody who is fully acquainted with the language he has learned as his first language. And there are bilingual speakers who learn more than one language at the same time. Usually, the language of the speaker's mother (mother tongue) is considered his native language. However, there are some speakers whose native language abilities of the second language turn out to be better than what he has acquired on his mother's lap.

And then there are users of the English language with a native speaker-like performance. But those speakers have stopped contributing to this forum :shock:

Then can you help me guess if Torsten is a native speaker or not? :)
_________________
Learning is a sacred engagement.
Ahmadov
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 312
Location: Azerbaijan

How do you define a native speaker? #4 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:00 am   How do you define a native speaker?
 

I think that "native-speakerness" (to coin a new word) is a state of mind. A person has no trouble thinking in a language that he's a native speaker of. By trouble I mean mental blocks, in a way your brain (well, mine at least) stubbornly refuses to think in a language that is not your native language, although you might know many words, and you need to make mental efforts to make up phrases in your head, when you think. I also hope this is a volatile state, and it will go away with time, provided that I will do lots of thinging in English. Ops, I ended up talking about my case ! But I daresay many learners experiense this at some stage of the learning process.

Hi, Ralph,

By the way, I presume your native language is English, but your command of German equals to a native level, so you're sort of bilingual, right? (I couldn't derive this info from your bio on this site, but maybe I just got careless and missed it :) )
In view of my first question, which language do you feel yourself more confident with? English or German?
Lost_Soul
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 1861
Location: South Park, Colorado, USA

Native #5 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:27 pm   Native
 

Ahmadov wrote:
Ralf wrote:
Molly wrote:
How do you define a native speaker?

A native speaker is somebody who is fully acquainted with the language he has learned as his first language. And there are bilingual speakers who learn more than one language at the same time. Usually, the language of the speaker's mother (mother tongue) is considered his native language. However, there are some speakers whose native language abilities of the second language turn out to be better than what he has acquired on his mother's lap.

And then there are users of the English language with a native speaker-like performance. But those speakers have stopped contributing to this forum :shock:

Then can you help me guess if Torsten is a native speaker or not? :)

Hi Ahmadov,

Everyone's a native speaker of a language. Torsten is a native speaker of German. And he is an advanced (second language) speaker of English.
_________________
Test of English as a Foreign Language
TOEFL Preparation & TOEFL Vocabulary
Learn more: How to Become an English Teacher
Ralf
Language Coach
Ralf Breheny

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 1564
Location: EU (Ireland and Germany)

How do you define a native speaker? #6 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:59 pm   How do you define a native speaker?
 

Hi Alex,

I'd like to disagree with
lost_soul wrote:
I think that "native-speakerness" (to coin a new word) is a state of mind.

You can only be a native speaker of one language. Advanced proficiency in a second language is not the same. I'm convinced that if a young and clever chap like yourself moved to an English speaking country today, you would speak, read and breathe the language in no time. But you would stlil be a native speaker of Russian in 2050.

lost_soul wrote:
A person has no trouble thinking in a language that he's a native speaker of.

There are people who can do that in a second language. Those people are called advanced learners.

lost_soul wrote:
By the way, I presume your native language is English, but your command of German equals to a native level, so you're sort of bilingual, right?

That's right. My mother spoke to me in a Donegal accent, but I was born in Germany. By the time I moved to Dublin at the age of 7, I could understand English alright, but I would only really speak German. After living in Ireland for over 20 years I thought I'd lost my German completely.

lost_soul wrote:
In view of my first question, which language do you feel [yourself] more confident with? English or German?

English. But I moved back to Germany 6 years ago and language interferences have started to kick in like mind-altering psychedelics.
_________________
Test of English as a Foreign Language
TOEFL Preparation & TOEFL Vocabulary
Learn more: How to Become an English Teacher
Ralf
Language Coach
Ralf Breheny

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 1564
Location: EU (Ireland and Germany)

How do you define a native speaker? #7 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 13:43 pm   How do you define a native speaker?
 

To me a native speaker has to be born and raised in the place where the language is used. Other than that, they belong to another category.

But being native doesn't make you know the language well or even speak it correctly. Mostly because when you consider yourself a native, you are very likely to take the language for granted and not learn as much because you are already assumming that you know all there is to know (you might not realize it, but you probably act like it).

I consider myself a native speaker of Malay but many of my friends (from peninsula Malaysia where the language is used) said otherwise. In a way, they're maybe right because I only learned the language when I was 7. I never spoke it unless I have to deliver a speech, or become an MC in a ceremony at school, or speak to my Malay language teacher who always pretended that she didn't hear us when we spoke other than Malay language.

Only when I came to Kuala Lumpur (capital city of Malaysia) to further my study I was left to no other choice but to live with the language. I remembered being tired of not only speaking the language but also listening to people speak the language. It was really weird because I understand the language 100% but I cannot speak it, at least not without sounding weird. I even used to have a thick accent and people can always tell I'm not a local. I don't have it anymore, but I still say weird expressions like "Pick up from bed" instead of "Get up from bed" or "Let's cut the road" instead of "Let's cross the road". This is when my Malay friends doubt my nativeness.

But do I still consider myself a native of Malay? Definitely. But not a perfect speaker.
NinaZara
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 1168
Location: Malaysia (Cat city)

Native #8 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 17:34 pm   Native
 

Ahmadov wrote:
Then can you help me guess if Torsten is a native speaker or not? :)

Torsten isn't a native speaker, but he seldom makes a grammar or vocabulary error.
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 6552
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA

How do you define a native speaker? #9 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 17:43 pm   How do you define a native speaker?
 

lost_soul wrote:
I think that "native-speakerness" (to coin a new word) is a state of mind. A person has no trouble thinking in a language that he's a native speaker of.

However, there are people who have no trouble thinking in a language they've been using since childhood, but they still come out with a lot of deviant forms that are influenced by some other language that was spoken by the people around them as they were growing up.

There are also native speakers of a foreigner variety of a language. This happens when some language is used officially in some country that it is not indigenous to, and foreigner errors get passed on into the speech and writing of the next generation that has been speaking the language from childhood. This is why a lot of West Africans who claim to be native English speakers end up in ESL when they get to American or British universities. They are basically native speakers of some non-native variety of English (I know that sounds like an oxymoron) that is heavily influenced by pidgin or creole English and by the native languages of their own countries. Often they use no verb tenses at all, or the verb tenses they use are not English. Even though they've been speaking the language since they were 6 years old or younger, they can't function at a level necessary to study in an English-speaking country.
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 6552
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA

How do you define a native speaker? #10 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 18:35 pm   How do you define a native speaker?
 

Being a native speaker doesn't necessarily mean one is proficient in the given language. However, there are non-native speakers whose skill surpasses the indigenous' people knowledge, because the former are more likely to aspire to be better, whilst the latter are prone to perceive the language as granted.
SkiIucK
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 850

How do you define a native speaker? #11 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 19:10 pm   How do you define a native speaker?
 

SkiIucK wrote:
Being a native speaker doesn't necessarily mean one is proficient in the given language. However, there are non-native speakers whose skill surpasses the indigenous' people knowledge, because the former are more likely to aspire to be better, whilst the latter are prone to perceive the language as granted.

Dear SkiIuck,

But there are also non-native speakers who try too hard :wink:

IE - what's "indigenous' people knowledge"?
_________________
Test of English as a Foreign Language
TOEFL Preparation & TOEFL Vocabulary
Learn more: How to Become an English Teacher
Ralf
Language Coach
Ralf Breheny

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 1564
Location: EU (Ireland and Germany)

How do you define a native speaker? #12 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 19:20 pm   How do you define a native speaker?
 

I can sense the subtle irony you are implying here. I do not feel ashamed that I often make mistakes, it is a part of the studying process. I am not fluent in English and I will probably never be. However, that is what I am here for - to smooth the errors out.
To me, 'ingienous' people knowledge' is the command of a language the people in a given country possess.
SkiIucK
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 850

How do you define a native speaker? #13 (permalink) Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:54 am   How do you define a native speaker?
 

Englishuser, come back and join in the discussion!

Alan
_________________
English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story Present Simple
Alan
Co-founder
Alan Townend

Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 13891
Location: UK

How do you define a native speaker? #14 (permalink) Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:36 am   How do you define a native speaker?
 

SkiIucK wrote:
I can sense the subtle irony you are implying here. I do not feel ashamed that I often make mistakes, it is a part of the studying process. I am not fluent in English and I will probably never be. However, that is what I am here for - to smooth the errors out.
To me, 'ingienous' people knowledge' is the command of a language the people in a given country possess.

Hi SkiIuck,

Carry on, you're doing well. Ambition makes the world go round!

Check out wikipedia for indigenous peoples
_________________
Test of English as a Foreign Language
TOEFL Preparation & TOEFL Vocabulary
Learn more: How to Become an English Teacher
Ralf
Language Coach
Ralf Breheny

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 1564
Location: EU (Ireland and Germany)

How do you define a native speaker? #15 (permalink) Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:50 am   How do you define a native speaker?
 

Quote:
But those speakers have stopped contributing to this forum

We're back! :wink:
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

Display posts from previous:   
Some truth about the riots in London | Again: Things they wish they hadn't said
ESL Forum | What do you want to talk about? All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11  Next
Page 1 of 11
Latest topics on English Forums
We will be victoriousIlluminati Hunt Down DissidentsGreat Russian History documentary Video 1-20Can you share a good movie with me ?hitchhikingAmazing outburst of truth by US presenterPepsi Uses Aborted Fetal Cells In Flavor Enhancers1984 - 2012 London Zion / Alien invasion?Ever thought you were being lied to?When it hits the fan...Grammar Tests, Elementary Level, Test-160. Basic Grammar Exercises (1)2011 New documentary asks - Who killed Lady DianaFCE Exam

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Subscribe to FREE email English course
First name E-mail