How do you define a native speaker?

Molly · #1 (permalink) Mon Mar 10, 2008 23:36 pm *How do you define a native speaker?*

Ralf · #2 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 0:22 am *Native*

A native speaker is somebody who is fully acquainted with the language he has learned as his first language. And there are bilingual speakers who learn more than one language at the same time. Usually, the language of the speaker's mother (mother tongue) is considered his native language. However, there are some speakers whose native language abilities of the second language turn out to be better than what he has acquired on his mother's lap.

And then there are users of the English language with a native speaker-like performance. But those speakers have stopped contributing to this forum :shock:
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Ahmadov · #3 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:51 am *Native*

Lost_Soul · #4 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:00 am *How do you define a native speaker?*

I think that "native-speakerness" (to coin a new word) is a state of mind. A person has no trouble thinking in a language that he's a native speaker of. By trouble I mean mental blocks, in a way your brain (well, mine at least) stubbornly refuses to think in a language that is not your native language, although you might know many words, and you need to make mental efforts to make up phrases in your head, when you think. I also hope this is a volatile state, and it will go away with time, provided that I will do lots of thinging in English. Ops, I ended up talking about my case ! But I daresay many learners experiense this at some stage of the learning process.

Hi, Ralph,

By the way, I presume your native language is English, but your command of German equals to a native level, so you're sort of bilingual, right? (I couldn't derive this info from your bio on this site, but maybe I just got careless and missed it :) )
In view of my first question, which language do you feel yourself more confident with? English or German?

Ralf · #5 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:27 pm *Native*

Ralf · #6 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:59 pm *How do you define a native speaker?*

Hi Alex,

I'd like to disagree with

NinaZara · #7 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 13:43 pm *How do you define a native speaker?*

To me a native speaker has to be born and raised in the place where the language is used. Other than that, they belong to another category.

But being native doesn't make you know the language well or even speak it correctly. Mostly because when you consider yourself a native, you are very likely to take the language for granted and not learn as much because you are already assumming that you know all there is to know (you might not realize it, but you probably act like it).

I consider myself a native speaker of Malay but many of my friends (from peninsula Malaysia where the language is used) said otherwise. In a way, they're maybe right because I only learned the language when I was 7. I never spoke it unless I have to deliver a speech, or become an MC in a ceremony at school, or speak to my Malay language teacher who always pretended that she didn't hear us when we spoke other than Malay language.

Only when I came to Kuala Lumpur (capital city of Malaysia) to further my study I was left to no other choice but to live with the language. I remembered being tired of not only speaking the language but also listening to people speak the language. It was really weird because I understand the language 100% but I cannot speak it, at least not without sounding weird. I even used to have a thick accent and people can always tell I'm not a local. I don't have it anymore, but I still say weird expressions like "Pick up from bed" instead of "Get up from bed" or "Let's cut the road" instead of "Let's cross the road". This is when my Malay friends doubt my nativeness.

But do I still consider myself a native of Malay? Definitely. But not a perfect speaker.

Jamie (K) · #8 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 17:34 pm *Native*

Jamie (K) · #9 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 17:43 pm *How do you define a native speaker?*

SkiIucK · #10 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 18:35 pm *How do you define a native speaker?*

Being a native speaker doesn't necessarily mean one is proficient in the given language. However, there are non-native speakers whose skill surpasses the indigenous' people knowledge, because the former are more likely to aspire to be better, whilst the latter are prone to perceive the language as granted.

Ralf · #11 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 19:10 pm *How do you define a native speaker?*

SkiIucK · #12 (permalink) Tue Mar 11, 2008 19:20 pm *How do you define a native speaker?*

I can sense the subtle irony you are implying here. I do not feel ashamed that I often make mistakes, it is a part of the studying process. I am not fluent in English and I will probably never be. However, that is what I am here for - to smooth the errors out.
To me, 'ingienous' people knowledge' is the command of a language the people in a given country possess.

Alan · #13 (permalink) Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:54 am *How do you define a native speaker?*

Englishuser, come back and join in the discussion!

Alan
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Ralf · #14 (permalink) Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:36 am *How do you define a native speaker?*

Molly · #15 (permalink) Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:50 am *How do you define a native speaker?*

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