"It's gone out of head" vs. "I'm out of my head"

Sahara · Sun Mar 16, 2008 21:23 pm *"It's gone out of head" vs. "I'm out of my head"*

English Language Tests, Intermediate level

ESL/EFL Test #276 "If memory serves me right", question 4

Pete: No, that's just it. It's completely gone out of my ..........

(a) head
(b) brain
(c) intelligence
(d) knowledge

English Language Tests, Intermediate level

ESL/EFL Test #276 "If memory serves me right", answer 4

Pete: No, that's just it. It's completely gone out of my head.

Correct answer: (a) head
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wha's he better head or brain?

Sahara

Alan · Sun Mar 16, 2008 22:20 pm *"It's gone out of head" vs. "I'm out of my head"*

Hi,

The accepted expression is 'out of my head.'

Alan
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English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story Don't bank on it

Yankee · Sun Mar 16, 2008 23:04 pm *"It's gone out of head" vs. "I'm out of my head"*

I know you probably don't want to hear this, Alan, but I would suggest replacing 'brain' with a different distracter.

I agree that 'out of one's head' is a standard collocation, but to me the meaning of that group of words is 'crazy' or 'irrational' -- i.e. I've always understood that fixed expression to mean the same thing as definition 80 here:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=out+of+one's+head&r=66

In the context of the sentence, that fixed expression was not used, and therefore I don't think you can reasonably rule out someone choosing to say 'brain' rather than 'head'. (I have heard people use 'brain' in a sentence such as the test sentence, and thus my suggestion above.)

If you're saying that your entire sentence is a fixed expression, then it seems to be something that is not fixed in American English.
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Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

nessie · Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:09 am *head vs brain*

Hi Amy,
You mean "out of one's head" is the same as "out of one's mind"?

By the way, does anyone else have any ideas?
Many thanks
Nessie.

Yankee · Mon Mar 31, 2008 15:58 pm *head vs brain*

Hi Nessie

Yes, you can say either 'out of one's head' or 'out of one's mind' to mean the same thing. I assume you saw that in my dictionary link above.

Alan stated "The accepted expression is 'out of my head.'", but this statement doesn't make any sense to me because the meaning of the idiomatic expression 'out of my head' doesn't fit the meaning of the sentence. To me, Alan's response seemed to be referring to something that has no relevance whatsoever to the test sentence.

The word 'out' in the test sentence should be parsed with the verb 'go' rather than with 'my head'. The test sentence basically means that Pete has forgotten something. In other words, 'a piece of information has left (or gone out of) Pete's head/brain'.

To me, saying 'something has gone out of your head' is not a fixed expression. Instead, it is a whimsical way of saying that you've forgotten something. Since the expression is not fixed, and since I have in fact heard people use the word 'brain' in just such a context, I consider the word 'brain' to be just as correct and acceptable as the word 'head' in this sentence.
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_________________
Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

lost_soul · Mon Mar 31, 2008 16:07 pm *"It's gone out of head" vs. "I'm out of my head"*

Yankee · Mon Mar 31, 2008 16:12 pm *head vs brain*

Hi Alex

The word 'mind' was not one of the options. Wink

But, yes, that word could also be used in the test sentence.

One of my points here was that 'out of my head' is a fixed expression with a specific meaning. However, the test sentence does not use this fixed expression!

EDIT:
Alex, I could SWEAR that you originally wrote 'mind' rather than 'head'. Did you edit your post?

As regards your question about 'head', yes, that word is certainly possible in the context -- but so are 'brain' and 'mind' and 'noggin', for example.

Using the word 'head' in the test sentence can in no way be categorized as 'the accepted expression'. It just ain't so! Cool

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_________________
Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

nessie · Mon Mar 31, 2008 17:22 pm *head vs brain*

But are you sure the phrase "out of my brain" is used with high frequency, Amy? I sounds just... strange.
By the way, I think you may have misunderstood lost_soul: he said the first word that caught his eyes was "head", not "mind", and any way, if "out of one's head" is a fixed expression which is not suitable for this context, then why "out of one's mind" is accepted here? Don't they have the same meaning? :O

Yankee · Mon Mar 31, 2008 17:55 pm *head vs brain*

No, Nessie, 'out of my brain' is not used as a fixed phrase, and I have not said that it is. You have apparently misunderstood my point and are parsing the words in the sentence incorrectly. And as far as I'm concerned, the root of the misunderstanding here is Alan's original post.

The test sentence does not use the fixed expression 'out of my head' (meaning crazy/irrational). Instead, the test sentence uses 'go out' with a meaning similar to 'leave' and then continues on to talk about '(from)where' (i.e. from my head/brain/mind/noggin).

In other words, the test sentence basically says that "the name of the film has left my head/brain/mind/noggin" or "the name of the film is completely missing from head/brain/mind/noggin".

The test sentence has nothing whatsoever to do with any sort of fixed expression about 'out of my head' that I've ever heard. And that is exactly what is so misleading about Alan's response.
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_________________
Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

lost_soul · Mon Mar 31, 2008 18:06 pm *head vs brain*

Alan · Mon Mar 31, 2008 21:12 pm *head vs brain*

Hi,

'Out of my head' is an expression by which I intended to convey that something has been forgotten. The choice of 'brain' in place of 'head' goes against what I wanted to convey since to me 'out of my head' suggests the person at that time is acting a bit like a scatterbrain. Whether this is 'an' or 'the' accepted expression is totally irrelevant.

Alan
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You can read my EFL story Phrasal Verbs/look

Yankee · Mon Mar 31, 2008 21:31 pm *head vs brain*

Hi Alan

It was you who wrote 'the accepted expression', was it not?
According to your oft-quoted "rule of specificity", should I now interpret your first response to mean "the expression accepted by Alan"? Wink

I still see nothing wrong or odd with a number of other words in place of 'head'. To me, the sense of "scatterbrained-ness" is not conveyed any more or any less by some of the other words I've mentioned.
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_________________
Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

Torsten · Mon Mar 31, 2008 21:56 pm *head vs brain*

Amy,

None of the other words you mentioned are given as answer options in this test. As we have established, if something goes out of your head, you forget it. Sometimes it's useful to try and see the bigger picture of a learning tool. In the given context, a user learns the expression "this has gone out of my head" with the right meaning and that's exactly what we want to achieve.
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Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary

Yankee · Mon Mar 31, 2008 22:02 pm *head vs brain*

Hi Torsten

I don't understand why my screen shows both 'head' and 'brain' then.
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_________________
Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

Torsten · Mon Mar 31, 2008 22:06 pm *head vs brain*

Amy,

Are you trying to say that "it's completely gone out of my brain" is a common phrase in American English?
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TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary

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