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 Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:20 pm five poor countries in the world |
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| Quote: | | Molly, you're the one who thinks everything in life is completely relative, so play ball with me here. |
Jamie, you're the one who thinks there's really only one way to go, i.e. your way. Playing ball usually involves more than one side, right? |
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Molly
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| Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:20 pm five poor countries in the world |
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| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | It's absurd when you see someone complain about living in poverty when he's fat, has his own apartment, one or two cars, cable TV and other luxuries, but you commonly see that in the States. |
Are all those products bought and paid for, in general? How would you class someone as poor, Jamie? |
All of the products get paid for one way or another, or the people wouldn't have them.
| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | I usually think of these people as being like Americans who claim that Chicago is a very safe city, just because they live in the safe part of it and have never been attacked. |
You often get the same from people who have never been poor. They often criticise or disbelieve those who are poor. |
But just because someone says he's poor, it doesn't mean he really is poor. A panhandler on the streets of Prague makes more money than a journalist in the same city. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4407
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:21 pm five poor countries in the world |
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| Quote: | | All of the products get paid for one way or another, or the people wouldn't have them. |
Why do you think so many people lose them?
| Quote: | | But just because someone says he's poor, it doesn't mean he really is poor. A panhandler on the streets of Prague makes more money than a journalist in the same city. |
So no one's poor, in your meaning of the term, in the States, right?
Love your "better off than you were when/would be if" approach.  Is it from Disney? |
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Molly
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Posts: 4017
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| Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:36 pm five poor countries in the world |
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| Molly wrote: | | So no one's poor, in your meaning of the term, in the States, right? |
There is a small number of people who, due to their own choices, wind up on the street -- or even prefer to live on the street. But even those people get fed and cared for in the hospital. By world standards, nobody's poor in the US. Attempts by politicians to convince people to the contrary are usually lies, as we've recently seen with a story Mrs. Clinton told (although she was merely passing on the story and wasn't deliberately lying).
| Molly wrote: | | Love your "better off than you were when/would be if" approach. Is it from Disney? |
You need to use clearer wording, because I'm not sure I understood the comment.
Anyway, you can't make the whole world live like upper-middle-class Europeans, because not everybody chooses to cooperate. So the best you can hope for is a system where everybody gets fed and everybody who wants to can stay out of true poverty. Capitalist countries do that now.
Here's a blog post for you to enjoy:
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/02/10/62-knowing-whats-best-for-poor-people/ |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4407
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:31 am five poor countries in the world |
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| Quote: | Molly wrote:
Love your "better off than you were when/would be if" approach. Is it from Disney?
You need to use clearer wording, because I'm not sure I understood the comment. |
Your "you should be happy that you are at least better off than you were when you lived in your non-capitalist country." view sounds a bit Disneyfied.
Thanks for the link. Hope you enjoy this one.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29555/Uncontrolled-Capitalism-Failed-Us |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:03 am five poor countries in the world |
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| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | Molly wrote:
Love your "better off than you were when/would be if" approach. Is it from Disney?
You need to use clearer wording, because I'm not sure I understood the comment. |
Your "you should be happy that you are at least better off that you were when you lived in your non-capitalist country." view sounds a bit Disneyfied.
Thanks for the link. Hope you enjoy this one.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29555/Uncontrolled-Capitalism-Failed-Us |
You probably wanted to say "than you were"? 
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How much upchuck would a woodchuck upchuck if a woodchuck could upchuck ?
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Lost_Soul
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 1861
Location: South Park, Colorado, USA
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| Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:14 am five poor countries in the world |
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| Quote: | | You probably wanted to say "than you were"? |
Definitely. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
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Posts: 4017
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| Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:53 am five poor countries in the world |
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| neverland wrote: | I wanna know where do you come from? if you are from one fo those five countries, then i have to tell you that: capitalism can make you rich!!!!!!
forget the stupid socialism! |
Hi Neverland,
You make it sound as if capitalism can make you rich while socialism prevents you from becoming rich. Neither capitalism nor socialism can do anything, you can only do it yourself. Any person can be rich by creating value for others. You can start this process instead of waiting for the CCP to relinquish power. You need to understand that words like 'capitalism' or 'socialism' are very vague terms to describe the way a society chooses to live. Nobody will come and change the Chinese society, you can only start changing it yourselves.
Of course it is much easier to create value in a society like the US where the majority of people have agreed to follow certain principles that allow the individual to prosper and live in freedom. It will take the Chinese several generations to build a country that can even remotely be compared to the US.
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Torsten
Site Admin
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Posts: 7898
Location: EU
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| Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:48 am five poor countries in the world |
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| Quote: | | Any person can be rich by creating value for others. You can start this process instead of waiting for the CCP to relinquish power. |
And any person can become rich by exploiting others. That IS happening in many places in China. Is that an OK way to get rich, IYO? |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
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| Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:12 pm five poor countries in the world |
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In the long run, nobody can become rich by exploiting others, at least not in a country like the US. You can only get rich if you create value for others. The more value you create the richer you become. This law is stronger than any laws created by human beings. In countries like China, many people still think that the only way to become rich is to exploit others. In the US many people know for a fact that the only way to become rich is to render useful service to others.
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Torsten
Site Admin
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| Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:38 pm Five poor countries in the world |
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| Quote: | | In the US many people know for a fact that the only way to become rich is to render useful service to others. |
Like cigarettes, right?
A website for you?
http://www.heritage.org/ |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:39 pm five poor countries in the world |
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| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | Molly wrote:
Love your "better off than you were when/would be if" approach. Is it from Disney?
You need to use clearer wording, because I'm not sure I understood the comment. |
Your "you should be happy that you are at least better off than you were when you lived in your non-capitalist country." view sounds a bit Disneyfied. |
Where did I say that anybody needs to be satisfied with his present situation? If that were true, then capitalism wouldn't work either, because nobody would be motivated to improve anything. No matter what your situation is, there's always the possibility of improvement. |
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Jamie (K)
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:43 pm Five poor countries in the world |
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As I have said before, in the US you are free to make your own decisions. If you decide that smoking cigarettes is good for you, you can smoke them in private places. It's up to you to decide whether or not cigarettes are a useful product. Many Americans understand that smoking is not good for their health so they decide to spend their money on more useful things.
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Torsten
Site Admin
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| Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:45 pm five poor countries in the world |
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| Torsten wrote: | | You make it sound as if capitalism can make you rich while socialism prevents you from becoming rich. Neither capitalism nor socialism can do anything, you can only do it yourself. |
Socialism can prevent people from becoming rich by creating confiscatory tax policies and forcing too much state regulation on your business. I'm not only thinking about Marxist countries where independent business is illegal, but also of countries in Scandinavia where it's possible to owe 103% or more of your annual income in taxes. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4407
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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