Hope olympic games will be held successfully

[Jan]

You are blinded by Chinese Nationalism very much, I wouldn't be surprise that you do the job for free for pure pleasure to serve Chinese interest where ever possible.
The proud to be Chinese is over the everybody right or over all the arguments.
Paranoia is what you expect from people ???
...to believe that trees are eg. yellow and rice eg. pink.
It has same effect when you push forward your awkward propaganda stuff.
I ask you to think and not to repeat what is even not your own thought.
After hearing Chinese explantions and cover stories I am just angry.
Jan

[aleaf]

Thanks so much Jan for your teaching and I am so respect that you are a great thinker because you are repeating your own thoughts without being influeced by your meadia and people around you. We chinese are covering stories and you are revealing them. you are a hero(ine).
Talking with you isn't a kinda communication at all. Nonsense.
You are all well-informed, and know all-round of every story. OKAY.
You admire anyone as long as he or she is against China. More specifically, anyone that is againt communism. Go on regarding Dalai Lama as your hero. He deseves admirations from people like you.I understand.
OKOK You don't need to reply this thread which makes you angry any more because we are brainwashed.

[Jan]

What I remeber from meeting with Dalajlama was peace for you and me, it was simply teaching, it was hope of good cooperation for better future.
He has not mentioned Tibet freedom even once, only Tibet culture was his concern,he was convinced very much that people as you and me are good inside and able to understand.
In your attacks on him you have forgotten that people may just know him good and this is no way how to change this.

You came to Tibet country with weapons in your hands and your soldiers were killing , and are killing up to nowdays.
No way to cover this my dear aleaf / gs.

Jan
Killing is bad my friend even in the name of China
or maybe specially in the name of China.

[aleaf]

Killing is bad my friend even in the name of China
or maybe specially in the name of China.

I can't agree more. Killing is bad even in the name of independence just like this incidence in Tibet,March, 14.
"You came to Tibet country with weapons in your hands and your soldiers were killing , and are killing up to nowdays."

Man, Tibet is a part of China. People there before was leading a life under serf-system. Chinese government went there to liberate serfs. Without weapons, they would have been killed.

No way to cover? what has been covered? I think Dalai covered a lot of things. Listen to voice not only from Chinese government but from people from other countries, you will know some people has realized the purpose of Dalai already.

"He has not mentioned Tibet freedom even once" . Funny. Sure he doesn't need to mntion it . People there are enjoying a higher freedom than ever before when he was in Tibet.( Of course it depends on whom do you think are regarded as people. People like Dalai have lost their priviledge, they are not as free as beofre.They call on freedom in bad need.)
As to independence, if you are not stupid, you can tell he wants independence very much. But he has no hope at all. I hope he is wise enough to grasp this opportunity to communicate with Chinese government. I don't think he will have another chance any more.

We are reading a story in different aspect. The truth you think is different from I think. And unfortunately, both of us believe the information we grasp is truth. That is the reason I think the tread is nonsense.

Let's stop this tread.

You think:
1. Chinese government is killing Tibetan.
2. Dalai lama is a repectable great person. He is striving for Tibetans.
3. China invaded Tibetan.
4: Chinese government is doing genocide.
5. chinese government is always lieing.
6. Chinese people are brainwashed na d we are cheated by the government.
Anything else?

You see I have already known your viewpoints. And I think you have known my viewpoints. So if we can't persuade each other, as common people, why don't we stop nonsense arguement and let history itself prove who is right in the future? History will prove.

[Ralf]

Hi aleaf,

There seem to be 2 two problems here.

1. your history books are fictitious
2. you have no access to sources that are censored by your goverment

The Dalai Lama lineage had started in the 16th Century, and their Buddhist religion has been exercised ever since. Do you want the world to believe that radical and violent Buddhism is a threat to China?

Here's what happened after the Chinese invaded Tibet:

The Chinese Communist government led by Mao Zedong which came to power in October lost little time in asserting its presence in Tibet. In 1950, the People's Liberation Army entered the Tibetan area of Chamdo, defeating sporadic resistance from the Tibetan army. In 1951, representatives of Tibetan authority, acting without authorisation from the Dalai Lama, participated in negotiations in Beijing with Chinese government. It resulted in a Seventeen Point Agreement which affirms China's sovereignty over Tibet. The agreement was ratified in Lhasa a few months later.

The Chinese government at first attempted to reform Tibet's social or religious system in Ü-Tsang. Eastern Kham， previously Xi Kang province, was incorporated in the province of Sichuan. Western Kham was put under the Chamdo Military Committee. In these areas, land reform was implemented. This involved communist agitators designating "landlords" — sometimes arbitrarily chosen — for public humiliation in "struggle sessions." "It was only after the Dalai Lama fled his country, in 1959, that China began to collectivize the land and execute landlords, as it "liberated the serfs" in Central Tibet."

The Chinese built highways that reached Lhasa, and which then extended the Indian, Nepalese and Pakistani borders. The traditional Tibetan aristocracy and government remained in place and were subsidized by the Chinese government. During the 1950s, however, Chinese rule grew more oppressive with respect to the lamas.

By the mid-1950s there was unrest in eastern Kham and Amdo, where land reform had been implemented in full. These rebellions eventually spread into western Kham and Ü-Tsang. In some parts of the country Chinese Communists tried to establish rural communes, as was happening in the whole of China.

In 1959, China's military crackdown on rebels in Kham and Amdo led to the "Lhasa Uprising." Full-scale resistance spread throughout Tibet. Fearing capture of the Dalai Lama, unarmed Tibetans surrounded his residence, forcing the Dalai Lama to flee with the help of the CIA to India.

The Tibetan resistance movement began with isolated resistance to PRC control in the late 1950s. Initially there was considerable success and with CIA support and aid much of southern Tibet fell into Tibetan hands, but in 1959, after the failed military attempts in Lhasa resistance forces withdrew into Nepal. Operations continued from the semi-independent Kingdom of Mustang with a force of 2000 rebels, many of them trained at Camp Hale near Leadville, Colorado, USA. In 1969, on the eve of Kissinger's overtures to China, support was withdrawn and the Nepalese government dismantled the operation.

The rebellion in Lhasa was soon defeated, and the Dalai Lama fled to India, although guerrilla warfare continued in other parts of the country for several years. Although he remained a virtual prisoner, the Chinese set the Panchen Lama as a figurehead in Lhasa, claiming that he headed the legitimate Government of Tibet in the absence of the Dalai Lama, the traditional ruler of Tibet. In 1965, the area that had been under the control of the Dalai Lama's government from the 1910s to 1959 (Ü-Tsang and western Kham) was renamed the Tibet Autonomous Region or TAR. Autonomy provided that head of government would be an ethnic Tibetan; however, de facto power in the TAR is held by the general secretary of the Communist Party, who, as of 2006 has always been a Han Chinese from outside of Tibet. The role of ethnic Tibetans in the higher levels of the TAR Communist Party remains limited.

During the mid-1960s, the monastic estates were broken up and secular education introduced. During the Cultural Revolution, Red Guards, which included Tibetan members, inflicted a campaign of organized vandalism against cultural sites in the entire PRC, including Tibet's Buddhist heritage. Of the several thousand monasteries in Tibet, more than 6,000 are claimed by tibetanculture.org to have been destroyed. According to at least one Chinese source, only a handful religiously or culturally most important monasteries remained without major damage, and thousands of Buddhist monks and nuns were killed, tortured or imprisoned.

Since 1979 there has been economic reform, but no political reform. Some PRC policies in Tibet have been described as moderate, while others are judged to be more oppressive. Most religious freedoms have been officially restored, provided the lamas do not challenge PRC rule, renounce the Dalai Lama, and stay within dictated confines. Foreigners can visit most parts of Tibet, but it is claimed that the less savoury aspects of PRC rule are kept hidden from visitors. Foreign visitors are often subject to harassment by police.

Hu Jintao became the Party Chief of the Tibet Autonomous Region in 1988. In 1989, the 10th Panchen Lama died. Many Tibetans believe that Hu was involved in his unexpected death of the Panchen Lama. A few month later, according to Tang Daxian, a dissident journalist, the police in Lhasa received orders from General Li Lianxiu to provoke an incident. Peaceful demonstrations lead to the death of 450 Tibetans that year.

In 1995, the Dalai Lama named Gedhun Choekyi Nyima as the 11th Panchen Lama, while the PRC named another child, Gyancain Norbu. Gyancain Norbu was raised in Beijing and has appeared occasionally on state media. The whereabouts of Gedhun Choekyi Nyima and his family are unknown. It is believed that they are imprisoned, while Beijing contends that they are living under a secret identity for protection and privacy.

The Dalai Lama is now seventy-one years old, and by tradition, when he dies a new child Dalai Lama will have to be found. In 1997, the 14th Dalai Lama indicated that his reincarnation "will definitely not come under Chinese control; it will be outside, in the free world." On November 25, 2007, the Dalai Lama made a public statement that the next Dalai Lama might be elected democratically by the Tibetan people.
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[aleaf]

sigh...I have said I knew what you wanted to say. Why did you write so much again?

[prezbucky]

If they haven't found the next Dalai Lama yet... where does one sign up?

hehe

[Jamie (K)]

[aleaf]

They did find the next Panchen Lama, but the Chinese government made him disappear and replaced him with another kid who they picked.

Whom did you refer to (the first they)? Dp you kown how a Panchen or Dalai is elected?
Who told you so much dumfounding information? Dalai Lama? He can't represent all Tibetans. It is not he or several Tibetans who has the right to decide who is a Panchen or not. Do you know how many kinda religious divisions are there in Tibetan? How many Buddhas are there in Tibet? Dalai is only one of those.

Whom do you refer to (the second they)? It is not only the Chinese government who has the exclusive right to decide who is a Panchen.

What you have written expressed your great bias on Chinese government instead of showing respect to the Tibetan religion.

If Chinese government did anything vicious, will they so stupid to let you know? And do you think Tibetans will agree the government to do it?

[aleaf]

Do you believe there are aliens/ The Loch Ness Monster on earth? Do you think Princess Diana was assassinated by British royal? Do you think Monroe was killed by CIA? Do you think USA never landed on the moon? It depends on you.

[Jan]

What are you doing aleaf ... ??
You mix gossips with real people trauma.
This shouldn't be done. It is quite a lot of comments on many subjects, just comments but it has nothing to do with present situation in Tibet.
Understand please , it doesnt matter in that case how many times you repeat , what you try others to believe.
I am not politician.
I am deeply moved of the dramat of entire Tibet nation ,same history has happened to Polish in the past.
This is not first or last time most probably and
Any other country for sure maybe in many cases not better as you mentioned before It does not help Tibet now.
Jan

[aleaf]

Gossip? Yeah. In my opinion, some people are spreading gossip about China. And many people hope those gossips are true.

I dunt know what happened in Polish, but I dunt think you should llink it to Tibet. Go to Tibet, people there will tell how they feel. I just want to tell you Dalai's opinion couldn't represent Tibetans'. Tibet isn't totally the same as what you know from TV or newspaper.

BTW: I am sure Dalai must be a regular guest of some certain media which provide him many occassions to show himself but they are so mean to people who are against him.

I have said many times. We are talking about the same event but on the other hand we are not. Because the information we learn about the event are not totally the same.What made us disagree each other? not only the opinions/attitudes/morality but lots of concrete material we grasp is different.

[aleaf]

Go there yourself and chat with the local people.
You, Dalai or locals who know more aout Tibet?
Reports or what you see with your own eyes which reflect the reality there?
Come there and compare what you have learned about Tibet with the reality, are they the same?

[prezbucky]

Before Mao took power in China, how were relations between Tibet and China?

And Aleaf, how do you say "China" in Mandarin?

Is it Guang Do or something like that?

[Jamie (K)]