Hope olympic games will be held successfully

[prezbucky]

Cool, t'anks mon!

[Jan]

Aleaf go and see the world, compare that with what Chine is spreading at home for its own nation.
Jan

[Jamie (K)]

One of the characteristics of loyal citizens of a totalitarian society is that they fall for one specific strategic lie that fascist governments like that in China use.

Aleaf and GS don't have a realistic understanding that we in the West don't have censored or filtered media, and they are used to the government controlling everything. Their government even paid Google and Yahoo millions of dollars to help them set up Internet censorship and filtering so that they could restrict people only to government-approved subject matter and sources.

Because these guys are used to bureaucrats and pressure from the Party either censoring things or causing other people to censor themselves, they think that in every country in the world someone is censoring everything. They have no concrete understanding of the marketplace of ideas.

Totalitarian governments take advantage of this naïve worldview by convincing those people that all media from every country are just as censored as their own, and that their own country's propaganda is the censored "truth", while what the rest of the world is saying is the censored "untruth". They have no concept of the chaos and multiplicity of competing Western media and viewpoints.

I remember that once a lady from a communist country was interested in the fact that millions of Americans had changed over to eating a healthier diet. I said, yes, that was true of many people. Then she wanted to know how it was organized. I told her nobody had organized it, and that many different people just evaluated the idea against the others that were available, and they decided they agreed with it. This lady could not give up the notion that some central committee must have organized the "movement", and I couldn't convince her that there was no movement. It's like those older Russians who think that a small group of "oligarchs" control the whole stock market.

[Jamie (K)]

[prezbucky]

Yeah, compare/contrast foreign hygeine with that found in China. hehe

(among other research subjects, of course)

[aleaf]

Before Mao took power in China, how were relations between Tibet and China?

Tibet has been governed by governments in differnet times of China before PRC was founded. By yuan Dynasty, Ming Dynysty, Qing Dynsty,Republic Of China and now by PRC. What's wrong?

[aleaf]

"Totalitarian governments take advantage of this naïve worldview by convincing those people that all media from every country are just as censored as their own,"

I NEVER SAID THAT. I NEVER THOUGHT IT WAS TRUE. YOU WRONGED ME. REPORTS ABOUT CHINA IN THOSE COUNTRIES ARE DISTORTED BUT IT WASN'T THE RESULT OF CENSORED. IT CAME FROM PEOPLE'S ROOTED HATRATE AND BIAS ON COMMUNISM. WHEN PEOPLE MENTIONED SOCIALISM/COMMUNIST THEY PREASSUMED IT WAS VICIOUS, THEY SAID HITLER DID GREAT DAMAGE TO THE WHOLE WORLD AND THAT GUY CARRIED OUT SOCIALISM.RUSSIA CARRIED OUT SOCIALISM. THEY WERE BAD AND THEY HAVE GONE NOWHERE, SO CHINA/CHINESE GOVERNMENT MUST BE THE SAME. SO HOW COULD THEY EXPLAIN CHINA IN A NETURAL STANCE?
2008 TORCH RELAY WAS LINKED TO HITLER, SAYING IT IS A KINDA SHOWING OFF OF CHINESE COMMUNISM PARTY. GREAT FINACIAL INVESTMENT IN TIBET WAS REGARED AS A GENOCIDE. NO MATTER WHAT THE GOVERNMENT DOES, PEOPLE CRITICIZE THE GOVERNMENT. ONE CHILD POLICY WAS AND IS REGARD AS NO HUMAN RIGHT.

[Torsten]

Hi Aleaf,

Please don't start SHOUTING at us, texts typed in capital letters are very difficult to read. Besides, your animated avatar somehow doesn't match with the seriousness and credibility you are trying to convey in your posts.
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[AngieD]

http://www.friends-of-tibet.org.nz/occu.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet

Read those fully,... lots of facts,... I am sure there are lots of relatively unbiased books regarding history of Tibet as well.

If you notice Tibet was a very independent entity from China... even to the point of having Britain invading Tibet ((notice,.. Tibet,.. NOT China))

Years 1600+ might be very interesting.... especially 1900-1912, and then up to 1959. You notice that Tibet was acting, and recognized, as a fully independent nation.

Today from legal standpoint Tibet has not lost its statehood,.. national identity,... what China is doing is simply occupying a foreign nation and claiming it for its own on some buffed up basis.

China is big and powerful, commercially and otherwise... that is the only reason why nations could not do much about Tibet. If Iraq was of China's importance/size/power,... I very much doubt there would be a Gulf War, Iraq would be permitted to keep Kuwait simply "by the right of might" and not for any other reason.

[aleaf]

hehehe Mr. Torsten:

Have I shouted at YOU guys? I don't think I have the strength to shout at so many people.

[aleaf]

AngieD:

Do you know if a dalai lama wants to be legal according to the rules of this religion what should be do first?

Tibet hasn't been independent since yuan Dynasty.Of course I am sure that some certain countries hope tibet can act independly. I dunt need to read the links you recommmended me. History was/is/will always be written by people.If I wanna learn Chinese history, Chinese historians and western historians, I prefer the former. Centuries years before westerners found Tibet, the record about tibet being a part a China has appeared in Chinese classical books. Besides, even western historians, many admit Tibet has been a part of china for hundreds of years.
google and i am sure you will find them.

[aleaf]

How could you compare kuwait to Tibet and Iraq to China.
First, there is an legal government in kuwait, but there are only lamas in Tibet. Do you think Lamas can represent a government? Second, before Iraq invaded Kuwait, Kuwait was admited by the international community which admits Tibet is a part of China.
Third, I dunt think China is a powerful country. China is big but not powerful.If China were powerful, Gulf war, Iraq war and so on wouldn't have happened.

[Ralf]

Aleaf, if you've ever seen the film "The Truman Story", you'll understand that people in your country could all be what Truman Burbank (Jim Carrey) is in the film. No need discussing with people who believe that the world is a disc. In China, today's Galileo Galileis are still being persecuted. Or would you say that persecution as such is no operational instrument in China?
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[aleaf]

Ralf: it is many people from other countries who insist in thier own wishful thinking that Chinese people are closed to outside world. the fact is we can access to overseas media, news, people and we are learning form outside world but in the same time we also learned that opinions,explainations and reports of those countries were not necessarily the case. Chinese people have the ability to judge who is correct and who is wrong. And this judgement has nothing to do with Chinese communist Party. It is based on our own culture background and ways of thinking. Just take Tibet issue for example, not only chinese at home but overseas Chinese including some Chinese who are against Chinese communist party, all agree Tibet is a part of China.

As to "persecuted", we can't say some certain people were captured by the communist governmment, so they must have been persecuted. They broke the law, and they are doing harm to people. I think some deserve it. I've never done investigation and no people around me have ever been persecuted. At least i don't know. If you are referring guys believing in "Fa lun Gong" or guys lwho were persecuted like them. They desrve it.I am quite sure they are chearters and liars. How could they induce people to believe such a stupid so called religion? Something wrong with their nerve system. They think there is a rolling wheel in their bodies. Miserably some believers cut their bellies to search the wheel in thier bodies and some hanged themselves in order to enter the world described by the books.

[Jamie (K)]

Every time you mention political persecution to a loyal Chinese, they start bringing up the big boogie man Falun Gong, and they ignore the other people being persecuted. Falun Gong is obviously used as a red herring to divert attention from other oppression, and in robot-like fashion, these Chinese obey the strategy. As to something being wrong with someone's nervous system, remember that Marxism-Leninism and Maoism are also religions. Their premises have been proven over nearly a century to be false, and it's been clear that they cause widespread death and even famine. Yet, mostly through the threat of arrest and execution, as well as controlling the access to work and food, the Chinese communist party succeeded in convincing people to believe in them. That is how they induced people to believe in "such a stupid so-called religion" as communism. Who has got something wrong with their nervous system, Aleaf?

We know that you Chinese have some limited access to foreign media, but we also know that it's filtered. You don't see the same CNN that we do, and our own American companies, Google and Yahoo, assisted the Chinese government in setting up Internet filtering and the ability to monitor what people are looking at. They even operate as police informants so that the government can arrest people who try to assert their free speech rights. Look: