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 #2 (permalink) Fri Apr 25, 2008 16:18 pm amazing / astonishing / surprising |
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| I don't think it's unusual to say, "It's not amazing that..." or, "It's not astonishing that...", but it's just not the most common way to express the idea. Often we add "the least bit" and say, "It's not the least bit astonishing that..." Those expressions are perfectly normal. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #3 (permalink) Sat Apr 26, 2008 21:33 pm amazing / astonishing / surprising |
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| Quote: |
| I don't think it's unusual to say, "It's not amazing that..." or, "It's not astonishing that...", but it's just not the most common way to express the idea. |
How do you define "unusual" and "not the most common", Jamie? Aren't they similar in meaning? |
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Molly
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| #4 (permalink) Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:20 am amazing / astonishing / surprising |
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Jamie claims these combinations are not unusual, but I've found only 1 example of "not astononishing that" in 1m words in the BNC, only 2 examples per 1m words in the Corpus of American English and only 1 example in the Time corpus.
..........
In all three corpora, there are no examples of "not amazing that".
So, if those combinations/colligations/collocations are not unusual, just who is using them and where? |
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Molly
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| #5 (permalink) Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:29 am amazing / astonishing / surprising |
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Hi,
The trouble with these results from a corpus is that they don't allow for any originality of expression.
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| Is it not astonishing? |
is a heap more effective than the usual way of showing surprise. There seems to be a trend here of throwing google or bnc or whatever at anyone who uses an expression that has a zing about it! And I bet you won't find that (has a zing about it) in any database!
Alan
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Alan
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| #6 (permalink) Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:48 am amazing / astonishing / surprising |
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By the way, what's the difference among surprise, astonish and amaze?
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 Nessie
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| #7 (permalink) Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:06 am amazing / astonishing / surprising |
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| Quote: |
| The trouble with these results from a corpus is that they don't allow for any originality of expression. |
I don't think we use them for such. Originality is fine, but when an ESL student needs to learn native-speaker collocations, we need to take care of just what is and is not commonly heard. My question was not about originality, but about why such combinations are not common. Do you know why?
This is what we use the BNC for:
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| The British National Corpus (BNC) is a 100 million word collection of samples of written and spoken language from a wide range of sources, designed to represent a wide cross-section of current British English, both spoken and written. |
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Is it not astonishing?
is a heap more effective than the usual way of showing surprise. |
"Is it not astonishing?" is not "it is not atonishing that", Alan.
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| And I bet you won't find that (has a zing about it) in any database! |
And never say never, Alan:
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And just when I believed I couldn't stand it for another moment, the man who I married would rush up the walk, still in his smock, rubber-soled shoes, and safety goggles and we would make frantic love. # But the zing was out of it. #
BYU CORPUS OF AMERICAN ENGLISH
:wink:
203 examples per 1 m words for "zing" in the American Corpus. 20 per 1m in the BNC. |
Does that tell us anything about "zing"? |
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Molly
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| #8 (permalink) Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:09 am amazing / astonishing / surprising |
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| nessie wrote: |
| By the way, what's the difference among surprise, astonish and amaze? |
http://www.onelook.com/ |
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Molly
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| #9 (permalink) Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:41 am amazing / astonishing / surprising |
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Hi Molly,
I take your point about the use of a corpus and how it can help. What I am railing against I suppose is the attitude: I found this in *corpus and so ya boo or I can't find it in the *corpus and so ya boo.
Alan
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Alan
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| #10 (permalink) Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:45 am amazing / astonishing / surprising |
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| Yes, that attitude is annoying. I also hate the attitude of "I'm a native speaker and my intuition tells me... and so ya boo to anything else". :wink: Another I can't stand is the "it is possible to combine many many things". Great news, but I'm more interested in what is probable and not in that which is possible. |
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Molly
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Ralf
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| #12 (permalink) Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:35 pm amazing / astonishing / surprising |
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I'm surprised/astonished/... at Alan's patience.
(by the way, native-speakers often say: it's unnatural, it's not common, ...) :)
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Inga
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| #13 (permalink) Mon Apr 28, 2008 19:19 pm amazing / astonishing / surprising |
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| Quote: |
| (by the way, native-speakers often say: it's unnatural, it's not common, ...) |
As opposed to saying...? |
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Molly
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| #14 (permalink) Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:39 am amazing / astonishing / surprising |
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Talking about the corpuses, what do you think about this: I've found 23 result of the phrase "repeat again" on the BNC :D
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Nessie
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| #15 (permalink) Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:57 am amazing / astonishing / surprising |
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Hi Nessie
Have you considered that "repeat again" might mean that something is being said for the third time. :wink:
.
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Yankee
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| Pills and Potions | as far as I heard? Is it natural? |
