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Lost_Soul
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 #3 (permalink) Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:20 am COLLOCATIONS |
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The tricky collocations are the ones that are not idioms. For example, we never say that something is a "big detriment", but only a "great detriment". The opposite is "no great detriment". Why? I don't know.
Sometimes an English writing professor will send a foreign student down to me and say that the person "doesn't know grammar". When I check the student's writing, I find that he or she makes virtually no grammar mistakes, but that the appearance of bad grammar actually comes from not knowing collocations. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #4 (permalink) Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:18 am COLLOCATIONS |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
The tricky collocations are the ones that are not idioms. For example, we never say that something is a "big detriment", but only a "great detriment". The opposite is "no great detriment". Why? I don't know.
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Maybe because detriment already contains "big" as part of its meaning ?
I.e. detriment is a big damage ? |
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Lost_Soul
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 Nessie
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| #6 (permalink) Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:21 am Collocations |
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| Quote: |
| For example, we never say that something is a "big detriment", but only a "great detriment". |
Never say never, Jamie:
"If they do get us, many times it's a big detriment to them for the next game, the next two weeks. They're up so emotionally. " How much longer will it go on? # There are whispers Cherry Creek has concerns about being thin in the next few years, but a check of its enrollment showed that it has been..." http://www.americancorpus.org/
| Quote: |
Maybe because detriment already contains "big" as part of its meaning ?
I.e. detriment is a big damage ? |
As can "great".
great adjective: relatively large in size or number or extent; larger than others of its kind (Example: "A great juicy steak") |
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Molly
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| #7 (permalink) Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:28 am Collocations |
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| nessie wrote: |
| By the way, could anybody please tell me the difference between slang, collocation and idiom? |
an idiom is a slang expression that is known for a long time (like several centuries) It is a time-proved thing, and not all slang evolves into idioms. Some slang expressions are to fall into oblivion.
A collocation is a combination of words that sounds natural and is used in certain situations.
Like Jamie said, "a great detriment" is a collocation. You cannot say "a big detriment", mainly because it would be a weird thing to say. |
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Lost_Soul
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| #8 (permalink) Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:22 am Collocations |
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| Quote: |
| Like Jamie said, "a great detriment" is a collocation. You cannot say "a big detriment", mainly because it would be a weird thing to say. |
How about "a major detriment"? |
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Molly
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| #9 (permalink) Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:24 am Collocations |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Like Jamie said, "a great detriment" is a collocation. You cannot say "a big detriment", mainly because it would be a weird thing to say. |
How about "a major detriment"? |
Yes, you can say that. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #10 (permalink) Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:27 am Collocations |
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| Molly wrote: |
Never say never, Jamie:
"If they do get us, many times it's a big detriment to them for the next game, the next two weeks. They're up so emotionally. " How much longer will it go on? # There are whispers Cherry Creek has concerns about being thin in the next few years, but a check of its enrollment showed that it has been..." http://www.americancorpus.org/ |
Sports page, Molly, sports page.
You're liable to see or hear anything coming from an athlete or sports writer, because many of them tend to be clumsy with language. My nephew's favorite was when a college football player on TV said, "My major be speech." |
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Jamie (K)
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| #11 (permalink) Thu May 15, 2008 19:04 pm Collocations |
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Thanks for all comments:) that's my turn to give some examples of collocations:
a mental BLOCK e.g.
I always seem to suffer a MENTAL BLOCK whenever I'm asked a question in class even though most of the time I know the answer.
frame of MIND, e.g.
I don't think I'm in the right FRAME OF MIND to sit an exam. I don't seem to be able to concentrate
to step out of LINE, e.g.
She's a very strict teacher. If any of her students STEP OUT OF LINE she gets really angry.
I hope they'll be helpful:) |
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Magda21
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| #12 (permalink) Thu May 15, 2008 23:15 pm Collocations |
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| Quote: |
| You're liable to see or hear anything coming from an athlete or sports writer, because many of them tend to be clumsy with language. |
Maybe they prefer other collocations to the ones you use? |
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Molly
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| #13 (permalink) Fri May 16, 2008 5:05 am Collocations |
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| Perhaps, but it's also quite possible that they're very clumsy with language. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #14 (permalink) Fri May 16, 2008 7:13 am Collocations |
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In just a few posts, they've jumped from being clumsy with language to very clumsy. What happened?
Do you think that certain collocations are genre/context-specific? |
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Molly
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| #15 (permalink) Fri May 16, 2008 7:38 am Collocations |
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"Adjective + detriment" doesn't seem that popular in the USA (http://www.americancorpus.org/). "Big detriment" shares 5th place with other adj + detriment collocations.
1 SERIOUS DETRIMENT 5
2 MAJOR DETRIMENT 5
3 POLITICAL DETRIMENT 4
4 BIGGEST DETRIMENT 4
5 GREAT DETRIMENT 4
6 SUBSTANTIAL DETRIMENT 3
7 FINANCIAL DETRIMENT 2
8 OBVIOUS DETRIMENT 2
9 GREATEST DETRIMENT 2
10 OVERALL DETRIMENT 2
11 SIGNIFICANT DETRIMENT 2
12 ULTIMATE DETRIMENT 2
13 UTTER DETRIMENT 1
14 UNFORTUNATE DETRIMENT 1
15 TREMENDOUS DETRIMENT 1
16 TRAGIC DETRIMENT 1
17 TANGIBLE DETRIMENT 1
18 SHORT-TERM DETRIMENT 1
19 OPERATIONAL DETRIMENT 1
20 REAL DETRIMENT 1
21 PROFOUND DETRIMENT 1
22 PROFESSIONAL DETRIMENT 1
23 PRIVATE DETRIMENT 1
24 POSSIBLE DETRIMENT 1
25 POSITIVE DETRIMENT 1
26 PHYSICAL DETRIMENT 1
27 PERSONAL DETRIMENT 1
28 PERCEIVED DETRIMENT 1
29 LONG-TERM DETRIMENT 1
30 HUGE DETRIMENT 1
31 GENERAL DETRIMENT 1
32 FURTHER DETRIMENT 1
33 BIG DETRIMENT 1
34 EVERLASTING DETRIMENT 1
......
And, yes, Jamie, that one example per million words is from the sports' world. Could it be that "big detriment" is a preferred collocation in that area? |
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Molly
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| Followed by something | usage of "make great time" |
... something we never have again, I know... I guess I really really know..